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Its an interesting one the tapping up topic in my opinion it comes down to loyalty personally ive had my loyalty tested in recent years but would find it hard to leave Millpark, but if the young person in question has been given his chance at the smaller club again in my opinion he owes the club for the faith, time and effort paid in him

As Ivan says it happens in most sports and business etc I myself look after a local football reserve team and actively approach players to come and improve both our squad and club, our club has one of the best youth set ups in northern ireland and ive witnessed youngsters whos father has a affiliation with a different club rise through our youth ranks to they reach senior level then just leave to go to the club their fathers affiliated with ….. this is where I think it comes down to loyalty of course we all like to have smoke blown up our backsides and hear people say nice things about us but it comes down to the individual if they go or not

Dan , not at all. As I say all is fair in love and war so if you live by the sword be prepared to die by the sword. This has gone on for ever and in reality how many players make moves in their careers ?
I think anyone who thinks this is going to be stopeed OR could be stopped is living in a dream world. It happens in all sports it happens in business where top producers are headhunted by competitors. Get over it and move on.

Ivan :

So you wouldn't have an issue with a Premier League team(s) "tapping" up the likes of Neil Gill, Jason Van Der Merwe at Muckamore then???

I recently made contact with Clarence regarding some old Cricket photos. which included my Father, Howard Burns as an Umpire in the late 40’s and through the early 50’s. Clarence was extremely helpful to me and, in addition to his tracing the details of at least one photo., he referred me to “the Ulster Cricketer”which I thoroughly enjoyed reading on the internet. I will, in time, obtain his books on Ulster Cricket, but I thought I should take a moment to express my thanks to Clarence. He has obviously made supreme efforts to preserve the history of Cricket in Northern Ireland and I trust he will continue his good work. My Father passed away in 1956 at the age of 49 and, recalling his love for the game, I know he would have been very proud of the efforts of Clarence Hiles. Thank you for letting me express my gratitude. Howard Burns Jr.

Interesting discussion regarding the 'tapping up' of players. While I obviously don't know the specifics of the alleged approach I think it's poor form for a club to proactively contact another clubs player and try and turn their head. I think this is especially the case when dealing with younger players who might have their head turned easily- surely clubs should look at why they aren't producing players of sufficient quality rather than taking the short- term approach of stealing other clubs players? If a player decides to leave to try and better themselves/ personal reasons then that's obviously a completely different scenario.

As Ivan says it's been going on for years and we hear rumours of this type of thing every season but in my mind that doesn't make it right.

Andy McCrea Re "I'm sure you understand the difference....."

Andy in my eyes all's fair in love and war. Any competitive person will want what's best for their club be that hold on to their talented players or invite players from other clubs who you feel will add to your team. It's an individuals choice at the end of the day and unless there's a transfer policy introduced which states that all talks must be between club chairmen or what ever we aren't going to stop individuals be they captains or just players letting people know there is an opportunity for them to play at a higher level.
This has gone on for over 40 years. Jimmy Boyce had a great system for recruiting players to Ballymena in the 70's. He invited them as "guests" on the tour to Blackpool and then got three or four days to work on them for the following season.
It's not going to stop now and I think it keeps everyone on their toes.

RE Dave -
Sorry for not getting back to sooner. I don’t think I should name and shame on here. It was just to highlight the issue, we know the person (s) / club (s).

Also RE Ivan -
Your quote from earlier…………

"It also helps distinguish why players are "poached" or are "allegedly poached". It's healthy for players to want to play at the highest level possible. It happens in all sports so we shouldn't make such an issue over it when one of "ours" wants to better themselves and move to Senior cricket."

I am sure you are well aware between the difference of someone wanting to move ( for self betterment ) and someone not even considering moving but being phoned up by another club and suggesting a move.

These two things are completely different I my eyes !!!
This does not come across in your quote.

Andy

Hi Ivan,
As always plenty to think and talk about in your emails. We'll check out the hat-trick claim and of course the umpire as I recall you always fostered good terms with the White Coat Brigade. Once I see the umpire I won't even need to check the book! Monty was a master of such situations and I never understood why Freddie was called the Legend and not John McCormick. The only thing missing on your own cricket CV was that you never played for North Down although you did spend a lot of time there as my liver will attest! Amazing to think we are still trying to sort out cricket after over 30 years!
Thanks for the book plug.

Hi Dan,
Cricket Ireland has a different agenda and you need to look into their figures in more detail to evaluate their significance within our area. Let's be parochial in the true Ulster style and look at the key benchmarks that affect us-Are more players playing than 10 years ago? Have clubs the same number of teams? Are more spectators watching matches? Are less players staying within the game? Umpiring standards are higher than ever but we have fewer of them! Why? Is schools cricket moving forward or backward? Why have we lost university cricket? Are we getting more media coverage? Are sponsors increasing in number? Is our Senior Cup final a showpiece worthy of the occasion? Are cricketers supporting representative cricket? Have we any representative cricket outside the national team?
I suspect the answers to these probing questions will highlight decline. I'd love it to be otherwise so that's why we need to tackle the problems now and come up with solutions.

Clarence, I think Cricket Scotland used their muscle and rescinded what the clubs proposed. I don't think there's as much money floating about NCU cricket for young players as people think. I think the enticements are simply to play at a higher level. I agree with the feeder club mentality and believe it can work both ways.From what I remember you were never a big fan of the "gamesmanship". Big Andy's think tank sits again next week and I'm sure he has a few ideas up his sleeve for us already. I'm not sure where the stats come from about the numbers playing cricket in Ireland but like you I would have thought it's on the decline but would be optomistic it can be reversed if the enthusiasm of Andy's think tank is anything to go by.
By the way the book is terrific but I recall getting a hat trick v Academy in 1983 for Saintfield and it's not credited to me although it does show 3 wickets against my name in the scorecard. I thought it was a cup match as I don't recall them being in our League that season.( I might have even just dreamt it, although I sort of recall a couple of lbws and maybe even a stumping by Norwood ( no that bit's definitely a dream ).It highlighted to me as well just how good a player Fred Ashton was , he featured regularily in the Muckamore run scorers for a lot of years, and John McCormick scoring 91 against Lisburn and Dermot when he was 44 years of age.John tells the story that Monteith went up to him and said " your in the 90's " and the rest is history. Lucky enough I seemed to get some wickets to warrant a mention in the scorecards so I could see which club I was with at different times.
I would recommend it to every cricket fan.

Clarence :

What do you mean by popularity of cricket is in decline? Cricket Ireland would like us to believe that the numbers playing cricket in the last 5/6 years in Ireland has nearly doubled to 30,000.

Ivan, like yourself I was interested in the Scottish decision although it appears to have been rescinded and may well cause more division than ever. Our current structure allows young and ambitious players the opportunity to move up the ladder but the enticement for money is what many people dislike. At the end of the day it is the players themselves that make the decisions to move or not. Premier clubs could also develop and assist junior clubs and build a relationship where players can move up and if it doesn't work out then return to their club. Enticement been around for ever and will not disappear. Best versus Best already happens in the NCU and until there is a strong lobby from the PLAYERS to have an Ulster League then it won't happen. Right now that lobby does not exist. I'd like to see a concerted effort made to get more umpires, get Queen's University back into NCU cricket, enhance the promotion of the Senior Cup final, practice zero tolerance for dissent/gamesmanship/sledging and bigger efforts made to bring spectators back to the game. You guys showed it can be done at Moylena. I hope big Andy's Think-tank isn't taking the winter off! They have sparked a lot of change and visionary thinking from their workshops and we need them to continue the good work. The popularity of cricket is in decline so we need to do things to revitalize it.

Just read the new proposed structure for Senior Cricket in Scotland. Only 32 Senior Clubs. In Northern Ireland with about 1/3 of the population we have 55 or 56 "Senior" clubs.
If we really want to raise standards do we need to bite the bullet on best v best and have a recognised Senior and Junior cricket clubs structure. Is it better to be a top Junior club than a bottom Senior club ?
It also helps distinguish why players are "poached" or are "allegedly poached". It's healthy for players to want to play at the highest level possible. It happens in all sports so we shouldn't make such an issue over it when one of "ours" wants to better themselves and move to Senior cricket.
When you see some of the travel distances even in this new structure in Scotland then Belfast to Derry shouldn't be an issue.
I know we have made some structural changes as we aim to get a best v best in the NCU but maybe it's still a "work in progress" to close the gap between club and interpro and ultimately international cricket. At the moment we are ahead of our Celtic rivals so let's make sure it stays that way.

Wylie,

Yes the finals day at one venue with 2 grounds over 2 days. Weather of course could be an issue but sure where would we be if we allowed for scheduling owing to weather. One venue over 2 days best 6/8 teams would also attract a significant sponsor. Have a reserve Sunday also for a wet weekend.

Wylie :

My suggestion won't work this coming season as it has been reduced to 8 teams. I personally would leave it as 4 groups of 3 as before. Run the group stages over 3 consecutive Sundays, with each team being at home & playing the other 2 in the group. If it rains, it is a no result & 2pts to each side. Then the top of each group goes to final's day at somewhere like North Down or Inst who have 2 pitches. Final's day would be great on a closed Saturday, but probably easier to do on a closed Sunday. Just my thoughts.