Forum

Re -Dan

you really are a local cricketing officianado if you don't know who Andy K is or what Club he belongs to...!

You may hope he isn't standing for you next year...

Clearly you don't cut the mustard mate...

BTW Andy, I think those two guys you refer to came from my club - total numpties who'll be trying elsewhere next year no doubt - not welcome back at ours...!

Also RE - Paul McCrum, great player mate, but forgive me if I and many others take a large pinch of salt when you enter into this debate...!

PS - forgive the error - my compliments related to the History of the Senior "Cup". - Must get these old fingers loosened for next season!!!

Dan - unfortunately you do not have the "cohanes" to declare to which club YOU are connected nor indeed to state your name in full. In case you are in any doubt, I am a proud member of Muckamore but due to umpiring duties I no longer take an active part in running the club. I am content to leave that to those much younger than I with with new ideas. I am also a member of Randalstown rugby club - but that isn't an issue here. Andy Kennedy is my real name - no hiding here. Those who know me are already aware that what you see is what you get - there are no back doors with this guy so perhaps Dan will state his position. In relation to "tapping" I am aware of 2 young guys who were "induced" to move clubs before the 2011 season had started. One of them was an opening bowler who, towards the end of the season didn't bowl for the 1st XI even though he was on the field! As "unstarred" players they turned out for the 2nds so the question that might be asked is how did the move really enhance their careers? And to answer your question - yes I would be annoyed if a player who was coached & nurtured in my club was "tapped" by another. As so few schools are producing players the emphasis in maintaining survival for clubs is to invest in young guys.
P.S. - congratulations to all involved in the production of the History of the Senior Club. An excellent read - even if "that" cup final is recorded in detail!!

Richard C :

I just wondered if Andy K had the same view/opinions as the approach the club he belongs too, and if he didn't, did that annoy him. In my opinion, EVERY club in the Premier League approaches players, young & old, and if any say they don't, they are liars. Some clubs are more transparant in their dealings, maybe as they run wary of the taxman etc, but then they get chastised on such forums as we are on!!

There is a distinction between a player moving to play in a higher standard and a player moving as a result of inducements. This has come about due to the nomadic existence of some who have moved for money in the past in our largely amateur sport, whether that be payment for coaching or a perceived backhander. Unfortunately because of the fact players have previously moved for money most players (and particularly players moving to certain clubs) are automatically branded with this stick.
Maybe a solution is to get people who are moving to announce on this site that they are not moving as a result of inducements!. Silence can then be taken as a sign that they are moving for money.
If we look at our North West neighbours we can see what a mess this whole issue can cause.
I can sympathise with frustrations where a club coaches and mentors a young player only for those overly ambitious clubs to step in and due to financial clout bully the rest. It is after all little Northern Ireland cricket....hardly professional sportsmen or packed stadiums. More fool the clubs offering and the shallow people taking up these offers I say. As I said moving to play at a higher standard or betterment is completley different. Good luck to them.

Dan why does it matter what club Andy Kennedy belongs to? We have to assume everyone who comes onto the Forum speaks as an individual not as a club spokesman unless otherwise shown. Too many people like to brand opinions on clubs even if the person is speaking as an individual which is why many forumites prefer anonymity. Differences of opinion are healthy and need not be personal. Ivan McC voices an opinion and almost immediately the retort hones in on several Muckamore players. That's wrong. I suspect the biggest "poachers" never come near Forums!

Andy K :

Which club are you affiliated with, out of a matter of interest? And if you are connected to a club, are you still invloved with the running of that club?

the "tapping" issue raises its head again and there will be as many opinions as "posters". I can appreciate the anger felt by clubs who have spent time & money in developing & nurturing talent only to see the "poaching" that goes on. One way to resolve the situation would be for a NCU ruling that any approaches must be made through the club that holds the players registration. This may entail a financial recompense to the club itself as well as to the "tapee". It is always interesting to see postings on here about the "youth policy" of particular clubs and yet the "tapping" goes on. But then no rep of any club has ever come on here and confirmed that they have been doing it. In fact it is the usual denial along the lines of "we as a club have never offered any inducement to anyone" but "the dogs in the street know who is at it".

Transfers, head-hunting, tapping-up, poaching, business plans, vision all are part of a desire/ambition to improve whether in business, life or sport - at the end of the day each individual has the right to say yes or no to the offer - i'm firmly in Ivan's corner as this is how it is, has been and always will be - Plan B - why not become best practice in these areas and decide your own destiny & marketability (if that is your desire)............NB the skill levels and effort/discipline required are great & will deter many who confuse 'capability & ambition'! One club or many clubs? - it's all about performing on the field wherever one plays and not talking a good game as many do (tho entitled to do so) - that's solely the individual's prerogative and from experience i suggest the overall love & loyalty is to the great game of Cricket - thankfully much bigger than all of us and always will be. However we have played/play, will challenge us, shape us, broaden our horizons and help us develop as humans and cricketers - forging lifetime friendships Provincially & Globally through camraderie - priceless.

Its an interesting one the tapping up topic in my opinion it comes down to loyalty personally ive had my loyalty tested in recent years but would find it hard to leave Millpark, but if the young person in question has been given his chance at the smaller club again in my opinion he owes the club for the faith, time and effort paid in him

As Ivan says it happens in most sports and business etc I myself look after a local football reserve team and actively approach players to come and improve both our squad and club, our club has one of the best youth set ups in northern ireland and ive witnessed youngsters whos father has a affiliation with a different club rise through our youth ranks to they reach senior level then just leave to go to the club their fathers affiliated with ….. this is where I think it comes down to loyalty of course we all like to have smoke blown up our backsides and hear people say nice things about us but it comes down to the individual if they go or not

Dan , not at all. As I say all is fair in love and war so if you live by the sword be prepared to die by the sword. This has gone on for ever and in reality how many players make moves in their careers ?
I think anyone who thinks this is going to be stopeed OR could be stopped is living in a dream world. It happens in all sports it happens in business where top producers are headhunted by competitors. Get over it and move on.

Ivan :

So you wouldn't have an issue with a Premier League team(s) "tapping" up the likes of Neil Gill, Jason Van Der Merwe at Muckamore then???

I recently made contact with Clarence regarding some old Cricket photos. which included my Father, Howard Burns as an Umpire in the late 40’s and through the early 50’s. Clarence was extremely helpful to me and, in addition to his tracing the details of at least one photo., he referred me to “the Ulster Cricketer”which I thoroughly enjoyed reading on the internet. I will, in time, obtain his books on Ulster Cricket, but I thought I should take a moment to express my thanks to Clarence. He has obviously made supreme efforts to preserve the history of Cricket in Northern Ireland and I trust he will continue his good work. My Father passed away in 1956 at the age of 49 and, recalling his love for the game, I know he would have been very proud of the efforts of Clarence Hiles. Thank you for letting me express my gratitude. Howard Burns Jr.

Interesting discussion regarding the 'tapping up' of players. While I obviously don't know the specifics of the alleged approach I think it's poor form for a club to proactively contact another clubs player and try and turn their head. I think this is especially the case when dealing with younger players who might have their head turned easily- surely clubs should look at why they aren't producing players of sufficient quality rather than taking the short- term approach of stealing other clubs players? If a player decides to leave to try and better themselves/ personal reasons then that's obviously a completely different scenario.

As Ivan says it's been going on for years and we hear rumours of this type of thing every season but in my mind that doesn't make it right.

Andy McCrea Re "I'm sure you understand the difference....."

Andy in my eyes all's fair in love and war. Any competitive person will want what's best for their club be that hold on to their talented players or invite players from other clubs who you feel will add to your team. It's an individuals choice at the end of the day and unless there's a transfer policy introduced which states that all talks must be between club chairmen or what ever we aren't going to stop individuals be they captains or just players letting people know there is an opportunity for them to play at a higher level.
This has gone on for over 40 years. Jimmy Boyce had a great system for recruiting players to Ballymena in the 70's. He invited them as "guests" on the tour to Blackpool and then got three or four days to work on them for the following season.
It's not going to stop now and I think it keeps everyone on their toes.