Forum

Richard C :

I just wondered if Andy K had the same view/opinions as the approach the club he belongs too, and if he didn't, did that annoy him. In my opinion, EVERY club in the Premier League approaches players, young & old, and if any say they don't, they are liars. Some clubs are more transparant in their dealings, maybe as they run wary of the taxman etc, but then they get chastised on such forums as we are on!!

There is a distinction between a player moving to play in a higher standard and a player moving as a result of inducements. This has come about due to the nomadic existence of some who have moved for money in the past in our largely amateur sport, whether that be payment for coaching or a perceived backhander. Unfortunately because of the fact players have previously moved for money most players (and particularly players moving to certain clubs) are automatically branded with this stick.
Maybe a solution is to get people who are moving to announce on this site that they are not moving as a result of inducements!. Silence can then be taken as a sign that they are moving for money.
If we look at our North West neighbours we can see what a mess this whole issue can cause.
I can sympathise with frustrations where a club coaches and mentors a young player only for those overly ambitious clubs to step in and due to financial clout bully the rest. It is after all little Northern Ireland cricket....hardly professional sportsmen or packed stadiums. More fool the clubs offering and the shallow people taking up these offers I say. As I said moving to play at a higher standard or betterment is completley different. Good luck to them.

Dan why does it matter what club Andy Kennedy belongs to? We have to assume everyone who comes onto the Forum speaks as an individual not as a club spokesman unless otherwise shown. Too many people like to brand opinions on clubs even if the person is speaking as an individual which is why many forumites prefer anonymity. Differences of opinion are healthy and need not be personal. Ivan McC voices an opinion and almost immediately the retort hones in on several Muckamore players. That's wrong. I suspect the biggest "poachers" never come near Forums!

Andy K :

Which club are you affiliated with, out of a matter of interest? And if you are connected to a club, are you still invloved with the running of that club?

the "tapping" issue raises its head again and there will be as many opinions as "posters". I can appreciate the anger felt by clubs who have spent time & money in developing & nurturing talent only to see the "poaching" that goes on. One way to resolve the situation would be for a NCU ruling that any approaches must be made through the club that holds the players registration. This may entail a financial recompense to the club itself as well as to the "tapee". It is always interesting to see postings on here about the "youth policy" of particular clubs and yet the "tapping" goes on. But then no rep of any club has ever come on here and confirmed that they have been doing it. In fact it is the usual denial along the lines of "we as a club have never offered any inducement to anyone" but "the dogs in the street know who is at it".

Transfers, head-hunting, tapping-up, poaching, business plans, vision all are part of a desire/ambition to improve whether in business, life or sport - at the end of the day each individual has the right to say yes or no to the offer - i'm firmly in Ivan's corner as this is how it is, has been and always will be - Plan B - why not become best practice in these areas and decide your own destiny & marketability (if that is your desire)............NB the skill levels and effort/discipline required are great & will deter many who confuse 'capability & ambition'! One club or many clubs? - it's all about performing on the field wherever one plays and not talking a good game as many do (tho entitled to do so) - that's solely the individual's prerogative and from experience i suggest the overall love & loyalty is to the great game of Cricket - thankfully much bigger than all of us and always will be. However we have played/play, will challenge us, shape us, broaden our horizons and help us develop as humans and cricketers - forging lifetime friendships Provincially & Globally through camraderie - priceless.

Its an interesting one the tapping up topic in my opinion it comes down to loyalty personally ive had my loyalty tested in recent years but would find it hard to leave Millpark, but if the young person in question has been given his chance at the smaller club again in my opinion he owes the club for the faith, time and effort paid in him

As Ivan says it happens in most sports and business etc I myself look after a local football reserve team and actively approach players to come and improve both our squad and club, our club has one of the best youth set ups in northern ireland and ive witnessed youngsters whos father has a affiliation with a different club rise through our youth ranks to they reach senior level then just leave to go to the club their fathers affiliated with ….. this is where I think it comes down to loyalty of course we all like to have smoke blown up our backsides and hear people say nice things about us but it comes down to the individual if they go or not

Dan , not at all. As I say all is fair in love and war so if you live by the sword be prepared to die by the sword. This has gone on for ever and in reality how many players make moves in their careers ?
I think anyone who thinks this is going to be stopeed OR could be stopped is living in a dream world. It happens in all sports it happens in business where top producers are headhunted by competitors. Get over it and move on.

Ivan :

So you wouldn't have an issue with a Premier League team(s) "tapping" up the likes of Neil Gill, Jason Van Der Merwe at Muckamore then???

I recently made contact with Clarence regarding some old Cricket photos. which included my Father, Howard Burns as an Umpire in the late 40’s and through the early 50’s. Clarence was extremely helpful to me and, in addition to his tracing the details of at least one photo., he referred me to “the Ulster Cricketer”which I thoroughly enjoyed reading on the internet. I will, in time, obtain his books on Ulster Cricket, but I thought I should take a moment to express my thanks to Clarence. He has obviously made supreme efforts to preserve the history of Cricket in Northern Ireland and I trust he will continue his good work. My Father passed away in 1956 at the age of 49 and, recalling his love for the game, I know he would have been very proud of the efforts of Clarence Hiles. Thank you for letting me express my gratitude. Howard Burns Jr.

Interesting discussion regarding the 'tapping up' of players. While I obviously don't know the specifics of the alleged approach I think it's poor form for a club to proactively contact another clubs player and try and turn their head. I think this is especially the case when dealing with younger players who might have their head turned easily- surely clubs should look at why they aren't producing players of sufficient quality rather than taking the short- term approach of stealing other clubs players? If a player decides to leave to try and better themselves/ personal reasons then that's obviously a completely different scenario.

As Ivan says it's been going on for years and we hear rumours of this type of thing every season but in my mind that doesn't make it right.

Andy McCrea Re "I'm sure you understand the difference....."

Andy in my eyes all's fair in love and war. Any competitive person will want what's best for their club be that hold on to their talented players or invite players from other clubs who you feel will add to your team. It's an individuals choice at the end of the day and unless there's a transfer policy introduced which states that all talks must be between club chairmen or what ever we aren't going to stop individuals be they captains or just players letting people know there is an opportunity for them to play at a higher level.
This has gone on for over 40 years. Jimmy Boyce had a great system for recruiting players to Ballymena in the 70's. He invited them as "guests" on the tour to Blackpool and then got three or four days to work on them for the following season.
It's not going to stop now and I think it keeps everyone on their toes.

RE Dave -
Sorry for not getting back to sooner. I don’t think I should name and shame on here. It was just to highlight the issue, we know the person (s) / club (s).

Also RE Ivan -
Your quote from earlier…………

"It also helps distinguish why players are "poached" or are "allegedly poached". It's healthy for players to want to play at the highest level possible. It happens in all sports so we shouldn't make such an issue over it when one of "ours" wants to better themselves and move to Senior cricket."

I am sure you are well aware between the difference of someone wanting to move ( for self betterment ) and someone not even considering moving but being phoned up by another club and suggesting a move.

These two things are completely different I my eyes !!!
This does not come across in your quote.

Andy

Hi Ivan,
As always plenty to think and talk about in your emails. We'll check out the hat-trick claim and of course the umpire as I recall you always fostered good terms with the White Coat Brigade. Once I see the umpire I won't even need to check the book! Monty was a master of such situations and I never understood why Freddie was called the Legend and not John McCormick. The only thing missing on your own cricket CV was that you never played for North Down although you did spend a lot of time there as my liver will attest! Amazing to think we are still trying to sort out cricket after over 30 years!
Thanks for the book plug.

Hi Dan,
Cricket Ireland has a different agenda and you need to look into their figures in more detail to evaluate their significance within our area. Let's be parochial in the true Ulster style and look at the key benchmarks that affect us-Are more players playing than 10 years ago? Have clubs the same number of teams? Are more spectators watching matches? Are less players staying within the game? Umpiring standards are higher than ever but we have fewer of them! Why? Is schools cricket moving forward or backward? Why have we lost university cricket? Are we getting more media coverage? Are sponsors increasing in number? Is our Senior Cup final a showpiece worthy of the occasion? Are cricketers supporting representative cricket? Have we any representative cricket outside the national team?
I suspect the answers to these probing questions will highlight decline. I'd love it to be otherwise so that's why we need to tackle the problems now and come up with solutions.