Forum

Re : Robin Haire

Robin I think your idea would definately be the first step in the right direction for all NCU clubs. I am sure some people will look to pick holes in the concept, i.e. those clubs who do have "pros" to coach firstly and play secondly, would they continue to do this? However, I think that all the NCU clubs should look to come together, recognise the problems and issues most clubs have, then we will be able to push forward as one and make our union grow in strength once again.

MAYBE THE WAY FORWARD.

clubs located closely like north down saintfield downpatrick holywood ards donaghadee bangor get together and employ a regional coach who works under the nica banner all year round.
each club to nominate their 4 or 5 schools where they want cricket promoted.
cost to each club approx.2 to 3000 per year.regional coach to be managed by head of nica in liason with one rep. from each club involved.

i am not sure if people are aware of the upcoming festival of cricket at downpatrick cricket club? some of the details are below:

The Air India cricket team will be the main focal point during the up and coming Festival of Cricket at Downpatrick, between 28th July and 9th August 2008.

The team consists of some of the best cricketers in India, who are enjoying a short break, following their participation in the fast and furious Indian Premier League.

They will spend ten days at Downpatrick, during an action packed festival of cricket, coaching young cricketers from across Northern Ireland and playing seven Twenty20 matches in all.

The Irish International side have jumped at the chance to play such high quality opponents. Ireland will play the Indian Airlines team in a Twenty20 match at Downpatrick on Friday 1st August, ahead of their World Cup qualifying games.

The Air India team is led by Jagadeesh Arun Kumar (Jak), the former Downpatrick professional. Jak left Downpatrick this season to play in the highly prestigious Indian Premier League, but couldn’t wait to return to “The Meadow” at Downpatrick where he has enjoyed so many lucrative seasons.

Anyone seeking more information should contact:

Audrey Hanna
Event Manager
EMail: twenty20@downpatrickcricketclub.com
Tel: 07720 709559

Kindly supported by:
Down District Council
Flixx Graphics
PM Autos
Flowers by Tracey
Devnirs Hotel

re my ealier posting - my point was in relation to pros who made a lasting impact at their clubs - the late John Solanky, Kamal merchant and Mankad spring to mind - not sure that there are many more but I am willing to hear of others - I certainly recall loads of carpetbaggers who were clearly here for the money, drink and "related activities" only! I would also remind Paul that Kiran more didn't play all that often for Ballymena 1s - he only got a game when JRW Boyce wasn't available!!

Wayne

I agree with a lot of your points. The cricketers you mentioned would all be excellent cricketers in any decade. The quality of the good players is not the issue, it is the quantity. We simply do not have enough good players. Too many teams are carrying players who get exposed when you go up a level.

The question is how do you develop young cricketers to the point where they strengthen senior clubs? (The schools used to do that job.)

I believe the NCU has it the wrong way round. The Challenge Cup should have the Pros and the 20/20 should be for U23s only, no pros. With proper promotion and decent prize money it might be the answer.

Interesting debate about the use of Pros and the standard of cricket. You could harp on for months on the same topic and everybody would make valid points. My view for what it is worth.

1. The NCU has undoubtedly not covered itself in glory over the last number of years in the Irish Cup and on pure stats there is certainly work to do in order to improve that performance. That may be an understatement perhaps! Good luck to Donemana in the semis. Lets hope 2009 sees a NCU team in the final.

2. Is the standard in the NCU worse than previously? It is hard to answer that again because you are not comparing like with like and unless you have played in all eras you are not really qualified to comment. The game has changed a lot. Pitches have improved meaning it is easier to bat and harder for bowler, the game has higher scores due to more aggressive batting (flip side worse bowling) and also 5 bowlers instead of 2 of 3 historically etc etc. What I would say is that in the likes of Kyle, Whitey, Ryan Eagleson, Gary Wilson you have players of the highest quality in Ireland who have proved or are proving themselves to be able to compete at the next level. There are some fantastic talents coming through - Kidd, Thompson, Stirling, Hall, Shannon to name a few and the NCU will probably provide a high percent of the Irish side in years to come. Something must be working!

3.The professional debate. Again only going by my own experience in Ewen Thompson we have a fantastic hard working professional who puts in a phenomenal effort in coaching our kids and our club is benefitting from this and hopefully in 3-4 years we will see the Mcmorrans, Harknesses,Beverlands, Heaneys, McCombes, Hodgins etc that Ewen has been instrumental in coaching coming through to be the future 1st XI. It is up to each club how they use professionals but one thing is in Ireland we need professional coaches to progress the game. Seeing these guys play and perform well in our local competitions attracts coverage to the game and to be honest the standard would be worse than what people are suggesting without them (look at the crowds Raza gets and the talk about Strydom at Lisburn)

The key thing in any debate is how to progress to something constructive and getting some action as opposed to words. I am not close enough to the work that the development officers do but they need all the help and support they can get from unions, players, ex players, schools etc etc to try and promote cricket. In terms of the competitions I know a document is in circulation (i have to confess to not reading it) but some form of inter-pro needs to come back or an all ireland league play off for top couple of teams from each union.

In the meantime lets hope it drys up and a few games get played.

This is not about NW v NCU. NW has stronger roots in the community and has not been as adversely affected by the decline in schools cricket. It has its own problems which I won't go into here.

This has nothing to do with what club I play for or in which team. I am seen as an NCU man in the North West and a North West man in the NCU. I don't care. I just want to see Ulster cricket improve.

I want to see a stronger NCU. Twenty years ago Ballymena and Holywood swapped positions on a regular basis as the best side in Section 2 and the worst side in Section 1. The Ballymena team included Jimmy Ireland, Alaisair McKee, Alan and Neville Neill, Adrian Goodrich, Michael Burton, Wilfie Ridge and Kieran More. Holywood had Simon Burrows, John Kerstens, Rickie Adair, Michael Shannon, Billy McCormick and Mike Bailey. Those sides today would be competing at the top of the NCU and are better than at least 6 or 7 section 1 teams.

We need to get real here. Things are not all rosy in the garden. Never mind what is happening in the LCU or the NWCU. Year on year cricket in the NCU is declining in standard and we wonder why attendances are down.

Things aren't totally negative. Talented youngsters are being spotted earlier and fast tracked to success. However we need them in greater numbers. I would prefer people to be talking about suggestions to move the game forward and to set some achievable goals.

Must agree with Rodney and Noel on the professional debate. Standards are not improving in either region, which is a concern. A lot of work is put in by the professionals, both within their club and local surrounding primary and secondary schools.

In the majority of cases professionals are doing a sound job for the game, however the utilization of the professional is a responsibility for each individual club - they must ensure that their club is doing their bit to promote and improve the game in their area.

However, as Noel states, further investment must be made into the game at a regional level, to compliment and improve on the work that professionals are doing, especially during the winter months.

I have read on this and the other forum discussions about the Ireland team and provincial cricket in general. The set up within Irish cricket should, in my opinion, follow that of my home county cricket side, Durham. During the 70’s & 80’s Durham was one of the leading minor county sides in the country who had occasionally risen to the big occasion and beaten a 1st class county. They were finally given first class status in the early 1990’s and embarked on an organised structure of youth development. Initially the signing of the big guns like Botham, Dean Jones, Simon Hughes and David Boon helped generate interest in the area. Results were disappointing to begin with , with a lot of people rightly thinking the superstars only turned up to take the pay cheque. The real work was being done behind the scenes with a long term plan to turn the youngsters into top professionals. It took a hell of a long time but is you look at the Durham team now you’ll see the likes of Steve Harmison, Paul Collingwood, Neil Killeen, Liam Plunkett and Phil Mustard who are products of the set up.

Ireland’s success in the world cup should be a stepping stone to something better. I think its fine to have ‘hired guns’ to generate interest in the game but the main focus should be a 10-15 year plan to develop and train the future players. It starts at school, and if someone shows promise they should be the subjects of top class centralised coaching from that point on.

I also think that for Ireland to compete on the world stage is a case of running before you can walk. In the north east of England there are more leagues and clubs than in the whole of Ireland, and it took us years to be competitive. Maybe it would be better for Ireland to apply for entry to the county championship, and at least then it would stop the problem of the players being poached by county sides and not releasing them for Irish games. They would also be able to progress as players by playing high standard cricket on a regular basis.

I recognise that some slubs and some individuals are already doing the things I'm advocating. This extra money being dished out by the ICC to Ireland, Scotland etc is any of it going to make it's way down to grassroots level. I read somewhere yesterday that the International squads of these countries could maybe full time soon. Let's make sure we don't go the same way as the football where an elite number get rich and the small clubs go to the wall.

It's an interesting debate about the pro's and I'm surprised that Andy has said he could count on one hand the number of pro's who have brought young players through the ranks. I am not slagging andy for this because I don't really know what is happening in other clubs but I can speak for our club and we are delighted with our professional. He hasn't set the world alight with his performances but his coaching has been great and the enthusiasm, commitment and determination he shows in trying to improve our kids has surprised a lot of people. I also see that Saintfield have a lot of good young cricketers coming through. My point is, are section 1 professionals getting paid too much to worry about coaching within clubs? Is it to do with their culture? Is it to do with clubs wanting the professionals to provide a short term fix rather than looking at the long term? If this is the case then I agree that the NCU will continue to over promise and under achieve. Professionals should be brought over first and foremost to develop the club. Second priority should be contributing to the team and leading by example. At Dundrum we do not want a professional who will score 100's every week as it would negate our achievements as a club. The only way for the union to move forward is for clubs to recruit recruit recruit and to develop develop develop. That's were the LCU are ahead of us. I remember going down to play youth cricket in leinster and being astounded at the support of parents, the number of members in clubs and the number of youth cricketers.

RE Brendan - All very cryptic! Just adds to my curiosity :-) Anyone going to say what happened to get this ban? If it was something so serious I would have thought that a press release from the NWCU would have been in order.

Re the postings from Staffy and Ivan (both of whom are experienced enough to voice a considered opinion) and Michael Patterson (I've been around a wee bit longer than 35 years and I don't know him either but there you go). The standards of NCU cricket are not improving and that is despite the amount of money that has been paid to the so-called "professional coaches" that have been around in the past 25-30 years. I can count on one hand the number of such guys who made an impact on the development of young players in clubs. Has anyone ever totted up how much money has gone out of the country over those years - must be well over £2 million.
And Ivan is right - 100 kids "running around" isn't development - its "baby sitting".
I have had the opportunity over the past season and a half to see Div 1 Sections 2,3 and 4 at close quarters and there is definitely "room for improvement" - I put it no further.
As I have posted previously on another forum 30 -35 years ago alomost every senior club at the time fielded 4 teams - not now - and yet we sat at NCU AGMS and listened to the "pro" debate and the main reaon for their retention was "the great job that they're doing with the young boys!"!! The facts speak for themselves. Or maybe I'm just becoming a grumpy old man - sorry - I can hear the comments already - you always were grumpy Kennedy!!

No jibes at all Ivan, just comments in reaction to both yours and Staffy. I disagree with them and quite frankly I'm getting tired of the anti-NCU ravings and pro North West stuff when behind the pros there's very little to commend. No mention of the lack of player discipline, insults and threats, increase in suspensions, dissent etc that appears to be happening more often in NW cricket. The NCU is not perfect but it's not the mess some of you guys portray.

Cricket in the NCU region is all about developing youth to feed the senior club structure. A very few senior players "appear to join" clubs senior ranks. Were the senior players next year and the following years come from? Without the youth teams most clubs will surely die over the next number of years. Yes the standard is getting poorer at senior level. But with proper youth development in each, and I mean each club, the future does not look very good for cricket in the NCU region.
PS Why do we not have a regional development officer for say every 3 or 4 clubs working in the schools 52 weeks a year and not just the summer time? Our current overseas player must, and I mean must, be good coaches and made to contribute their time to coaching.
PPSS Scored a game tonight that would fill you proud to be associated with youth cricket. U13 quarter final at Lisburn v Saintfield. Lisburn 79 versus Saintfield 77 in reply. Genuine club youth showing real enthusiasm for the game and proud to represent their clubs.