Forum

On behalf of my Dad, Richard and Alison, may I offer our deep gratitude to everyone who expressed words of sympathy and support over the past week. It was touching to have so many cricketers and administrators in attendance at the funeral on Sunday. The silence observed by the Ireland squad in Holland was also greatly appreciated.
Mum was more than someone who washed the 'kit' and like everyone, was delighted with the teams achievements over the past 5-6 years, culminating in the World Cup journey.

Andrew

a couple of seasons ago my son Michael played at North Maidenhead and they played league matches on both Saturdays & Sundays with separate leagues and fixtures for their Saturday & Sunday "teams" i.e. guys who could only play on one day - and also for those who could play on both days. had a most pleasant Sunday afternnon watching a game against the Fleet Street Strollers - lots of euridite guys like myself!!
P.S. I know that there is always controversy over the implementation of the NCU rules - the rule book over there was like a copy of the Belfast Telegraph!!!
P.P.S. I don't want to raise again the Derriaghy registrations issue of a couple of years back but I was interested to see that a big county like Yorkshire could get it wrong!! As a red rose supporter nothing surprises me!!

Ed
Sorry I didn't mean clarification on what actually happens.I think forcing games to be played on a Friday devalues the competitions when you see some of the sides that take the field. Now I know we could revert to two night matches but that was also unpopular. If some clubs are expected to play on a Friday with a few players missing why can't other clubs play on a Sunday with a few players missing. Sunday cricket is the norm throughout the world. I have always respected teammates views when it came to Sunday cricket just as I expected them to respect mine. I understand that some clubs may have long standing even legal issues with being able to play at home but that shouldn't stop them playing away. When I asked for clarification I meant is it not time to rule that Sunday is a day of competition within the NCU and the prime rearrangement day. I think at one time and maybe still in the NW the rule was Saturday matches rained off were played on the first available Sunday. After that the next rearrangement is a one night Twenty 20 affair ( with a second night allocated if neccessary ) As cricket spreads it's net throughout all schools we are going to get more and more blue collar workers playing the game. It is these guys who are always going to find it harder to get time off in the working week to play. In fact I know guys that work in retail and the ONLY day they are available is a Sunday. Similarily some guys with young families involved in other activities find that Saturday is the family day and Sunday is the only option they have for a game. Like everything I don't think there is the "perfect" solution but maybe the NCU Directorate need to revisit this and get a "rain check" to see what the majority of clubs/players want.

Sunday cricket.
Staffy is very right when he says the decision to play or not to play on a Sunday should be an individual decision but not an option for a club. At Muckamore we have played Sunday cricket for many years. Currently we have David Cardwell who doesn't play Sunday cricket and over the years have played without stalwarts like Campbell Weir, Andy Gleghorne, Victor Mahon, Hewitt Law for similar reasons. These guys were all at various times integral parts of our strongest eleven but it didn't lead to us as a club refusing to play on a Sunday. I'm sure most clubs in the country have had star players unavailable on a Sunday. Is it fair that players have to give up either pay or holiday time to facilitate one or two clubs by playing Friday's.
The situation at Ballymena is strange as I understood the Antrim County Hurling squad used the facilities for training on certain Sundays.
From reading Simon McDowell's posting it seems the NCU gives a club the power of veto on the issue of playing Sunday cricket. Is this something that needs clarification by the NCU Directorate ?

as someone who was involved with Ballymena for some considerable time, I recall playing away games on a Sunday. To take up Nile's point I don't recall any discussion taking place around leases, etc. I remember a certain "reluctance" among some of the committee at that time to play Sunday cricket at Eaton Park as it may have incurred the wrath of the local DUP and encouraged protests - some of you may recall controversy over the Sunday closing of the swimming pool and locking up the swings. I understand that "functions" are held on occasions in the club but as I'm no longer involved I cannot comment on any decisions made by the present committee.
To take up Simon's point - 8 team sections would "free up" Saturdays throughout the season rather than "designated" Saturdays.

Regarding Rodney's suggestion to extending the 21 day rule I would agree with him. I think anything to take some of the pressure of players at the moment would be welcome.

Sunday cricket is optional. In other words you can choose whether to play or not. Friday cricket is not optional because usually your boss decides whether you play or not.

Ballymena always seem to get their best players out on a Friday (The Kennedys) but this is not the case for other clubs.

Personally I think it is about time those clubs moved into the 21st century.
Two or three individuals are dictating when the other 19 or 20 play a game of cricket.

The other rule that causes big pressure on players and captains is the no points for either side if the second attempt is not completed. I don't know the solution to this because the situation can be exploited if points are awarded.

I suppose one way would be to award 1 point to the home team and 2 or 3 to the away team so the onus is on the home side to get the ground ready. But even then it could be exploited and is not satisfactory.

Ivan McCombe
Durimg the 1980s Ballymena played away games on a Sunday but never home games. The reason stated was something to do with the terms of the Eaton Park lease.

I am a current member of the Ballymena CC committee, which is made up of representatives from each of the 4 playing teams. The decision to not play on a Sunday was taken by the committee who considered what was best for the whole club and not just certain individuals.

My thoughts on the re-arranged games discussion: -

Irrespective of when a game is re-arranged for Ballymena can rarely put out a full strength side due to commitments outside of cricket. All clubs suffer the same for re-arranged fixtures. Personally given the option of taking a half-day Friday and playing Friday/Saturday or Saturday/Sunday I would go for Fri/Sat as at least it leaves one day of the weekend for me to spend with my family and also to rest and recuperate before starting work again on a Monday.

I think re-arrangements are always going to cause an issue with availability so going forward we need to find a way of playing as many games as possible on Saturdays. If the NCU proposal of an 8 team league goes through this would free up 4 Saturdays potentially for re-arrangements. 2 of these free Saturdays could be set aside half-way through the season and the other 2 at the end of the season.

I would also like to see umpires given more power to get games finished, even if this means playing in light rain. If I use our recent game that was abandoned against Saintfield as an example; Saintfield had completed their innings and Ballymena had started their reply only to be brought of for heavy rain (quite rightly). Once the rain stopped the pitch was prepared and made ready to start again, unfortunately as play was about to recommence some light rain started to fall. Having chatted to the umpires they explained that we could not start in rain but had we already been playing when this rain started we would have played through it. As the light rain persisted the game was abandoned, thus sparking this debate on the forum. Had the umpires been given power to recommence games in the light rain as long as the condition weren’t dangerous this game would have been completed and would have saved a re-arrangement.

Another option would be to allow the 1st game to be shorten to a 10 over game and declare a No Result should this not be completed therefore completely ruling out the need for re-arrangements.

Robert Kennedy.
Robert I don't want to get into a personal beliefs debate that like you I have my own views on.However from a cricketing point of view I think Ballymena 2nds played on a Sunday a couple of seasons ago (under David Montgomery and also at North Down when Harry Cook was captain) and I have played cricket on a Sunday for Ballymena.Once I remember being an ISC game at Sion Mills under Neville Neill (1986 or 87) and once in a 2nds game at CIYMS (late 90's). So is the "not on a Sunday" stance a club constitutional issue or the stance of certain individuals within the current 1sts? If the latter is the case it seems unfair that other clubs have to play with understrength teams. As for European law I would have thought clubs to be eligible for grants etc from the public purse would have to demonstrate that they respected the human rights of all members.

Hi

I have to say that although I respect Robert's beliefs and also the sabbath, I do believe that other teams are being punished for the league having to accomodate Ballymena and Lurgan. I can see where Robert is coming from saying that they may be at a disadvantage however the issue that I see is the fact of people having to take at least a half day off work to accomodate these teams if games are played on a friday. I know at Dundrum players find it very difficult to be home in time to play a three nighter and even when they can be home most of them have other responsibilties.

With regards a solution, I think all teams in the NCU should AT MOST have to play one game either midweek or on a friday. This would give some flexibility towards the anti-sunday teams. I also agree with Johns point whereby some fixtures should be played on Sundays in order to leave some saturdays free. This is obviously a tricky situation but surely the NCU can come up with a better solution than that already standing. We had to play Ballymena on a friday with a couple of players missing. We lost in the last over in what was a good game however with the addition of those couple that had to work, the result may have been different. In addition, the ones who did play including myself who works in Belfast, had to take a day off work which I or they didnt want to do. We also have a game tomorrow against Saintfield, which even though its a public holiday, its still not ideal. Moreover, I think the 22 day rule should be extended to 29 if there is a bank holiday weeked (12th) in between. This would give us more options to rearrange.

Re Andy

As a first team regular at TCC, it's certainly the first I have heard of it! Although I'd be interested as to where such a random rumour would have been started? Personally, I'd be all for the eight team in a section idea- at the minute we are due to be playing cricket 8 days in 2 weeks- never mind the Ireland squad, I'm gonna have to go full time if this keeps up!

Robert, thanks for your response. Once the original game was cancelled we had the option of playing either a 3 night midweek game or on a Friday. If it had been a midweek game we would have had an even weaker team, so that is we we opted to play last Friday. The stance of yourselves and Lurgan regarding playing on a Sunday is not the issue here, that is your belief and it is something that we should all respect. I haven't suggested that you benefit from this stance. My argument is other teams are forced to field weaker teams through no fault of their own as the NCU enforce the rule that all games are rearranged within a 21 day period thus ensuring that both teams are understrength.
As for a solution, more flexibility in the fixture list is essential and maybe more fixtures on a Sunday for those teams willing to play which would free up some Saturdays which could be used for rearranged fixtures. Let's face it whatever arguments that are put forward are going to be agreed with or shot down in equal measure but at least it keeps the forum interesting.

The Sunday cricket issue has been around for some considerable time - and will no doubt continue. The difficulties, as I see it, are that whilst there are clubs who don't play Sundays, there are others whose grounds are not available in September due to demands from rugby sections, who always tend to be the dominant partner in such situations and the fact that there are 10 teams in the top 3 sections of the 1st division. With an average of 23 weekends April - Sept (less for those with who share rugby/soccer grounds and the prevailing weather condition we have) 18 league games are too many - especially when additional cup games are taken into account. Sections with 8 sides would be a more manageable option - but who is ever gonna vote for that??!!

On a separate issue, is there any truth in the rumour that I'm hearing on return from holiday that Templepatrick played a league game with 7 players on the same day that their 2s played a cup game with a full side?.

Thanks Robert for your very detailed reply. My contribution to the debate was to make more use of Saturdays to resolve the the issue but that is not possible under the current rules. I've no problem with respecting the Sabbath but it takes different forms with different religions and is certainly not a topic for debate on a cricket forum. We are all entitled to our views and most people regard them as personal and private. Good luck to Ballymena for the rest of the season.

John, Gareth and Mark,
Thanks for your thoughts on the 'non-Sunday' playing clubs and the surrounding issues.
May I start my response by thanking John for this words of congratulations.
However I would like to make a few comments of my own. Just for the record John, Saintfield were not 'forced to play' yesterday. At the conclusion of the 'nearly-finished' first match, where we were within touching distance of a comfortable win, your captain Richard Owens suggested yesterday as his preferred date for the re-arrangement (excluding Sundays of course). It is my understanding that we accepted that date and it was agreed that evening. A three night game could have been arranged but it was not suggested until last week by which stage six of us had already arranged to take leave to be available. Despite this we were missing Michael Glass, Gareth Fisher and sadly Richard White. Obviously it is more difficult, if there are long distances involved, for the away team to make players available e.g. Gareth's reference from a few seasons ago.
The details of yesterdays match and its circumstances however are not the main issue. It is clearly wrong to suggest that Lurgan and ourselves in anyway benefit, in cricketing terms, from our stance. If anything the reverse is true. The chances are that for the other 8 clubs in section 2 you may only be 'required' to play one Friday a season at worst. We are only half way through the season and already yesterday was our second of three potential Friday fixtures. We travelled to Dundrum and may also have to travel to Holywood on a Friday (though I believe this may be a three nighter). Most of our teams in the NCU are composed of a few schoolboys/students, a few teachers and 6 or 7 others who have to arrange time off. Surely it is much easier for teams who may only have to play one Friday in a season to field a strong team than it is for ourselves and Lurgan who may need to do this 4 or 5 times a season? It is more likely that the willingness of players to take leave for cricket is proportional to the strength in depth of the squad (i.e. fear of losing their place in the side) and what is at stake for the team in terms of, for example, promotion and relegation.
There may be few statistics available to back up my point but I shall quote some figures from our memorable 1998 season by way of illustration. We were fortunate to get to the Irish cup final and Challenge cup semi-final. Again it was a miserably wet summer and along with multiple 'official' re-arrangements of washed out Irish cup games on Fridays we had to re-arrange six league games. Of our 18 league games we won 10 out of 12 Saturday matches (83%), 2 out of 2 two-nighters (100%) but only 2 out of 4 Friday games (50%) losing to NICC and Instonians. I appreciate 18 is not a big number and the percentages will not be statistically significantly different. However it does suggest that Lurgan and Ballymena are placing ourselves at a disadvantage rather than the converse.
The other issue relates to the NCU doing 'something about this'. I am led to believe (though I have not researched this myself) that european law would prevent any attempt by governing bodies such as the NCU from forcing teams to play on Sundays if that was their stated stance. This has been raised before at NCU AGMs over the years.
I have not discussed here the practical personal benefits that result from adopting the biblical principle of keeping Sundays special and everyone is entitled to their opinion. However I would be delighted to do so if any of the three of you (or anyone else reading this) wished to discuss it further.
Lets hope the weather improves soon and limits the inconvenience to all of us caused my multiple re-arrangements.
Best wishes to all,
Robert