Forum

Perhaps Michael Taylor would clarify if the "non-Sunday cricket" relates solely to the 1st XI odr does it extend extends to other sides in the club?

Ivan,

I have read your contributions to the Sunday cricket debate with interest, but I find that I have a few objections, both to some of your and other people’s comments on the issue.

At this point I should make clear that, although I do not play Sunday cricket in the NCU on account of being a member of Ballymena CC, I am not a Christian, I have no principled objection to Sunday cricket and, indeed, I regularly play on Sundays while at university. However, my respect for the beliefs of those who do not wish to play on Sundays should be made abundantly clear below.

Firstly, you correctly make the point that Ballymena have played Sunday cricket in the recent past. Indeed, I played in two Sunday fixtures for our 1st XI in 2005, away to both Woodvale and Laurelvale: we played those matches without six of the Christians in our side and lost both encounters heavily. However, these occasions have been the exceptions rather than the rule, matches which were played in desperation in order to fulfil our fixtures during trying times: you will remember that in April, May and June of 2005 Ballymena effectively had no home ground, what with extensive drainage work being carried out at Eaton Park.

Thus, when the NCU created this official ‘roster’ of non-Sunday clubs, the only sensible option for us was to sign up. By doing so we both respected the wishes of the many players within our club who held Christian values, while also avoiding the situation where we would have matches scheduled or compulsorily re-arranged on days when we had no home ground. Such a decision was both considered and practical.

Again, I cannot fault you when you remark upon the unfortunate difficulty players experience when trying to make themselves available for mid-week matches, but no club is exempt from this problem, including Ballymena. If we take as an example the Saintfield match that sparked this debate, we were missing Michael Glass, Gareth Fisher and, sadly, Richard White, had this been the Friday before, Mark Adair, myself and no doubt a few others could not have played. Though Saintfield fielded a 1st XI which was missing five or six regular players, of the Ballymena XI which played on that Friday, nine would have been unavailable had the match been scheduled for a Sunday.

“Tough!” you might say, given that players are between a rock and a hard place when it comes to disappointing either their employer or their captain, but one could reasonably argue that the bond between man and God, for those who choose to enter into such a relationship, is much stronger than between boss and worker and its terms perhaps non-negotiable. That Ballymena’s cricketers can, in the most part, make themselves available for cricket during the week is something totally unrelated to their stance regarding playing on Sundays, and is merely coincidental. If this were not the case, and if players such as the Kennedy brothers and Carl Williams could not get off work to play mid-week then our position, given the circumstances outlined above, would still be no different.

You continue with the statement that the situation such as we have in the NCU is uniquely ridiculous, “that is does not happen in any other civilised country”, asking “why should it happen here”? The answer is simple: Northern Ireland is a special case. This has, for time immemorial, been one of the most passionately religious regions in the Western world, with the fervency of Ulster Protestantism – and this in just purely theological rather than socio-political terms – renowned, well-documented and even feared. Where religion is such a strong part of public life and so intrinsic to the character of a country (as I write this, the News Letter sits beside me, its headline reading: “MP defends the role of faith in politics”) perhaps a little more care needs to be taken.

You further argue that there is not “any single good reason” why a club should have the power to decide whether or not it plays cricket on a Sunday. Leaving aside circumstances particular to individual clubs, the main reason is this, and though it may sound high-handed and irrelevant to the matter at hand, please hear it out: the political, social and constitutional fabric of the United Kingdom and much of the Western world is, or at least has been for some time, dominated by the idea of liberty, whether it be political, social or religious. The freedom of choice to play or to not play cricket, or to work, or to be formally engaged in any activity on a Sunday might not be the most convenient to those it indirectly affects, but it is typical of the freedom of belief and expression afforded by the liberal democracy which has stimulated so much of the prosperity we currently enjoy. If Northern Ireland is, as you have just said, a “civilised country” then surely this principle should be upheld.

Not for one minute am I arguing that if we forced Sunday cricket upon clubs within the NCU then the moral fabric of our society would unravel before our eyes, but my concluding point is this: liberty of conscience must prevail, and I think you might agree that its importance is much greater than that of four points in Section Two.

Are you saying this is a civilised country Ivan? We're hardly a good example of that.
On Sunday cricket there is certainly a minority involved but that doesn't make them dispensable. Why drive them out of cricket because we can't find a workable solution? If civilization equals democracy then we should be able to accommodate everyone's views and that's exactly what's happening right now. It's still only a game and if people want to play they'll play. If some want to go on holidays, shop with the wife, work, or go to church then that's their prerogative. Toleration and accommodation are the buzz words these days, are they not?

Never on a Sunday.
The article gathers up on the thoughts of the few posts there have been on the subject however I can't see how it "would be a sad day when club's are forced to play Sunday cricket ". Surely this is a decision for the NCU and if a 60% vote for Sunday cricket is carried then that's it. After that if a club or a team don't want to play they should be at the mercy of the opposition with regard to rearrangements. In 2008 the number of Never on a Sunday cricketers must be a very small number(judging by the teams fielded on a Sunday) and I can't see any single good reason why they should have a power of veto. It doesn't happen in any other civilised country so why should it happen here.

On behalf of my Dad, Richard and Alison, may I offer our deep gratitude to everyone who expressed words of sympathy and support over the past week. It was touching to have so many cricketers and administrators in attendance at the funeral on Sunday. The silence observed by the Ireland squad in Holland was also greatly appreciated.
Mum was more than someone who washed the 'kit' and like everyone, was delighted with the teams achievements over the past 5-6 years, culminating in the World Cup journey.

Andrew

a couple of seasons ago my son Michael played at North Maidenhead and they played league matches on both Saturdays & Sundays with separate leagues and fixtures for their Saturday & Sunday "teams" i.e. guys who could only play on one day - and also for those who could play on both days. had a most pleasant Sunday afternnon watching a game against the Fleet Street Strollers - lots of euridite guys like myself!!
P.S. I know that there is always controversy over the implementation of the NCU rules - the rule book over there was like a copy of the Belfast Telegraph!!!
P.P.S. I don't want to raise again the Derriaghy registrations issue of a couple of years back but I was interested to see that a big county like Yorkshire could get it wrong!! As a red rose supporter nothing surprises me!!

Ed
Sorry I didn't mean clarification on what actually happens.I think forcing games to be played on a Friday devalues the competitions when you see some of the sides that take the field. Now I know we could revert to two night matches but that was also unpopular. If some clubs are expected to play on a Friday with a few players missing why can't other clubs play on a Sunday with a few players missing. Sunday cricket is the norm throughout the world. I have always respected teammates views when it came to Sunday cricket just as I expected them to respect mine. I understand that some clubs may have long standing even legal issues with being able to play at home but that shouldn't stop them playing away. When I asked for clarification I meant is it not time to rule that Sunday is a day of competition within the NCU and the prime rearrangement day. I think at one time and maybe still in the NW the rule was Saturday matches rained off were played on the first available Sunday. After that the next rearrangement is a one night Twenty 20 affair ( with a second night allocated if neccessary ) As cricket spreads it's net throughout all schools we are going to get more and more blue collar workers playing the game. It is these guys who are always going to find it harder to get time off in the working week to play. In fact I know guys that work in retail and the ONLY day they are available is a Sunday. Similarily some guys with young families involved in other activities find that Saturday is the family day and Sunday is the only option they have for a game. Like everything I don't think there is the "perfect" solution but maybe the NCU Directorate need to revisit this and get a "rain check" to see what the majority of clubs/players want.

Sunday cricket.
Staffy is very right when he says the decision to play or not to play on a Sunday should be an individual decision but not an option for a club. At Muckamore we have played Sunday cricket for many years. Currently we have David Cardwell who doesn't play Sunday cricket and over the years have played without stalwarts like Campbell Weir, Andy Gleghorne, Victor Mahon, Hewitt Law for similar reasons. These guys were all at various times integral parts of our strongest eleven but it didn't lead to us as a club refusing to play on a Sunday. I'm sure most clubs in the country have had star players unavailable on a Sunday. Is it fair that players have to give up either pay or holiday time to facilitate one or two clubs by playing Friday's.
The situation at Ballymena is strange as I understood the Antrim County Hurling squad used the facilities for training on certain Sundays.
From reading Simon McDowell's posting it seems the NCU gives a club the power of veto on the issue of playing Sunday cricket. Is this something that needs clarification by the NCU Directorate ?

as someone who was involved with Ballymena for some considerable time, I recall playing away games on a Sunday. To take up Nile's point I don't recall any discussion taking place around leases, etc. I remember a certain "reluctance" among some of the committee at that time to play Sunday cricket at Eaton Park as it may have incurred the wrath of the local DUP and encouraged protests - some of you may recall controversy over the Sunday closing of the swimming pool and locking up the swings. I understand that "functions" are held on occasions in the club but as I'm no longer involved I cannot comment on any decisions made by the present committee.
To take up Simon's point - 8 team sections would "free up" Saturdays throughout the season rather than "designated" Saturdays.

Regarding Rodney's suggestion to extending the 21 day rule I would agree with him. I think anything to take some of the pressure of players at the moment would be welcome.

Sunday cricket is optional. In other words you can choose whether to play or not. Friday cricket is not optional because usually your boss decides whether you play or not.

Ballymena always seem to get their best players out on a Friday (The Kennedys) but this is not the case for other clubs.

Personally I think it is about time those clubs moved into the 21st century.
Two or three individuals are dictating when the other 19 or 20 play a game of cricket.

The other rule that causes big pressure on players and captains is the no points for either side if the second attempt is not completed. I don't know the solution to this because the situation can be exploited if points are awarded.

I suppose one way would be to award 1 point to the home team and 2 or 3 to the away team so the onus is on the home side to get the ground ready. But even then it could be exploited and is not satisfactory.

Ivan McCombe
Durimg the 1980s Ballymena played away games on a Sunday but never home games. The reason stated was something to do with the terms of the Eaton Park lease.

I am a current member of the Ballymena CC committee, which is made up of representatives from each of the 4 playing teams. The decision to not play on a Sunday was taken by the committee who considered what was best for the whole club and not just certain individuals.

My thoughts on the re-arranged games discussion: -

Irrespective of when a game is re-arranged for Ballymena can rarely put out a full strength side due to commitments outside of cricket. All clubs suffer the same for re-arranged fixtures. Personally given the option of taking a half-day Friday and playing Friday/Saturday or Saturday/Sunday I would go for Fri/Sat as at least it leaves one day of the weekend for me to spend with my family and also to rest and recuperate before starting work again on a Monday.

I think re-arrangements are always going to cause an issue with availability so going forward we need to find a way of playing as many games as possible on Saturdays. If the NCU proposal of an 8 team league goes through this would free up 4 Saturdays potentially for re-arrangements. 2 of these free Saturdays could be set aside half-way through the season and the other 2 at the end of the season.

I would also like to see umpires given more power to get games finished, even if this means playing in light rain. If I use our recent game that was abandoned against Saintfield as an example; Saintfield had completed their innings and Ballymena had started their reply only to be brought of for heavy rain (quite rightly). Once the rain stopped the pitch was prepared and made ready to start again, unfortunately as play was about to recommence some light rain started to fall. Having chatted to the umpires they explained that we could not start in rain but had we already been playing when this rain started we would have played through it. As the light rain persisted the game was abandoned, thus sparking this debate on the forum. Had the umpires been given power to recommence games in the light rain as long as the condition weren’t dangerous this game would have been completed and would have saved a re-arrangement.

Another option would be to allow the 1st game to be shorten to a 10 over game and declare a No Result should this not be completed therefore completely ruling out the need for re-arrangements.

Robert Kennedy.
Robert I don't want to get into a personal beliefs debate that like you I have my own views on.However from a cricketing point of view I think Ballymena 2nds played on a Sunday a couple of seasons ago (under David Montgomery and also at North Down when Harry Cook was captain) and I have played cricket on a Sunday for Ballymena.Once I remember being an ISC game at Sion Mills under Neville Neill (1986 or 87) and once in a 2nds game at CIYMS (late 90's). So is the "not on a Sunday" stance a club constitutional issue or the stance of certain individuals within the current 1sts? If the latter is the case it seems unfair that other clubs have to play with understrength teams. As for European law I would have thought clubs to be eligible for grants etc from the public purse would have to demonstrate that they respected the human rights of all members.

Hi

I have to say that although I respect Robert's beliefs and also the sabbath, I do believe that other teams are being punished for the league having to accomodate Ballymena and Lurgan. I can see where Robert is coming from saying that they may be at a disadvantage however the issue that I see is the fact of people having to take at least a half day off work to accomodate these teams if games are played on a friday. I know at Dundrum players find it very difficult to be home in time to play a three nighter and even when they can be home most of them have other responsibilties.

With regards a solution, I think all teams in the NCU should AT MOST have to play one game either midweek or on a friday. This would give some flexibility towards the anti-sunday teams. I also agree with Johns point whereby some fixtures should be played on Sundays in order to leave some saturdays free. This is obviously a tricky situation but surely the NCU can come up with a better solution than that already standing. We had to play Ballymena on a friday with a couple of players missing. We lost in the last over in what was a good game however with the addition of those couple that had to work, the result may have been different. In addition, the ones who did play including myself who works in Belfast, had to take a day off work which I or they didnt want to do. We also have a game tomorrow against Saintfield, which even though its a public holiday, its still not ideal. Moreover, I think the 22 day rule should be extended to 29 if there is a bank holiday weeked (12th) in between. This would give us more options to rearrange.

Re Andy

As a first team regular at TCC, it's certainly the first I have heard of it! Although I'd be interested as to where such a random rumour would have been started? Personally, I'd be all for the eight team in a section idea- at the minute we are due to be playing cricket 8 days in 2 weeks- never mind the Ireland squad, I'm gonna have to go full time if this keeps up!