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To take a pragmatic view of the umpires debate - where are future umpires going to come from other than the clubs? Or do some people think that they are going to walk in off the street!
Andy, that is a given of course, a far more realistic question is 'what' will make them take it up?
a) Sense of responsibility to the local game
b) Love of umpiring
c) Money
Perhaps we ill need some from all three categories rather than just the first two, as it is now...
Re I.McCombe`s and others previous messages
I thought the Ulster Bank and others WERE supporting GRASSROOTS LEVEL cricket over previous years [thankfully] or do some NCU clubs think that they are above that level.
Recently in previous postings we have had a "suggestion" that some clubs should become "feeder" clubs in terms of players which undoubtly lead to a "greater than thou" envoronment. We even had a suggestion that "big clubs" could meet their responsibility to develop/provide umpires by buying them in and forgetting about the other club they have come from .
Where do these clubs think they are in the great world of cricket?
Cricket in NI is played by 0.1% of population and watched by even less, it hasn`t increased in 40 years. It is played and run at club level by volunteers who are doing their best ......I don`t know where Ivan gets all these "paid adminstrators/groundsmen" from.
BE REALISTIC.....you are trying to compete with bigger sports who have bigger followings and are engrained into local community/society. What is in it for a major company to sponsor cricket? What is our marketing strategy either at club or NCU level?.
Compare press/tv/radio coverage of the major sports against cricket....even for our cup finals or "big" games.
BOTTOM LINE
PLAY THE GAME TO THE BEST OF YOUR ABILITY,PLAY IT HARD BUT REMEMBER ITS ONLY SOCIAL CRICKET WE ARE REALLY PLAYING. IT REALLY DOESN`T MATTER WHO WINS ANY CUP/LEAGUE AND FOR THOSE CLUBS WHO DON`T PROVIDE AN UMPIRE .....UNLESS THEY PROVIDE ONE ON A SATURDAY NO POINTS WILL BE AWARDED TO ANY OF THEIR TEAMS THAT DAY IRRESPECTIVE OF RESULT.
Thanks to Terry Burton for the kind words of support. I have always tried to put the love of the game before anything else and have concerns for the game at grassroots level. Much as the International team have done well and the excellent CEO Warren Duetrum has fought hard to get us accepted at that level I think club cricket at a local level has many challenges. Youngsters have more choices today and guys are retiring earlier so the 30 year club career is now a 20 year career and reducing.
The day of the volunteer has more or less gone in all sports with paid coaches, paid groundsmen, paid administrators rife in most sports either through social enterprise schemes or what ever other title is given to them. We are going to see five figure salaries offered for part time back room staff at inter pro level and clubs are spending money on players so there is money about.
I take Davy's comments on board about smaller clubs and as a cricket lover first and foremost I recognise that without smaller clubs we will eventually have few big clubs .
Every cricketer has a duty to the game no matter what level they play. Would they all pay a separate membership of £10 each every season to their Union as a subsidy for the umpire fees. ?
Maybe the Unions need to take a lead. I see the IRFU organised a draw for a car sponsored by Donnelly and Taggart and the clubs kept ALL the revenue from the tickets they sold. It certainly would be easier to sell 200 tickets at £10 when the prize is a nice car than it is selling them for a meal for two.
Just a couple of suggestions because if we muddle through with umpires this season ( which I think might be doubtful ) the situation is only going to raise its head again next year unless a credible solution is found.
Maybe instead of looking for sponsorship for the inter pro sides which cater for a few the NCU might want to get a sponsor who supports local cricket at grassroots level and again providing umpires is a critical part of the game.
Re Umpiring - real common sense and most excellent comments from Ivan McCombe. NCU take note and act accordingly !!
I see the NCU are asking for 'conscripts ' not volunteers from clubs to cover say 6 games per season. Doubtful if forcing clubs/players etc. to nominate will work - unless people are willing to serve conscription is not the answer.
Can the NCU now state what are these conscripts, together with the regular umpires, going to be paid per 50 over per side game during the incoming season. It should not be a secret what they are going to be paid so NCU please spell out the fees so that everybody is aware of them. This may ( or may not ) encourage people to apply - but it's better to know now so those involved can make a decision based on facts.
Certainly as others have said umpires will never be rich men, but nevertheless they should be fairly compensated for the invaluable work they do.
I wonder what level of training will be given to the nominated players as surely umpire training is not just a brief chat but a lengthy course with exams etc. as the laws of the game are very detailed and there are lots of local regulations and by laws etc. I wonder will the stand in umpires be as unbiased at all times as the regular umpires are, bearing in mind they could have quite an influence on many vital league games etc.
Asst ed reading your replay to a comment from andy kennedy take a look at your own club about people dropping down teams and helping out not sure it happens at your club
Matthew, thats exactly my point!
In an ideal world everyone would move gracefully down through the teams into retirement but it just isn't happening that way anymore, at North Down, or a lot of other clubs.
Absolutely shocking to read some of the most negative comments concerning the possibility of rewarding the current bunch of fine cricket umpires a few extra pounds for the invaluable service they provide!
And should this be the case as I've previously stated, it's an obvious and practical solution to the job of recruiting and boosting new faces, as well as encouraging existing umpires not to retire to soon from the game.
As Andy Kennedy quite rightly states, without them the game would disintegrate entirely, as if these last few wet summers weren't bad enough in contributing to that!
And just for the benefit of those with 'green eyes' and are carping on about the cost involved, NO umpire, I assure you, will be quitting their day job on the strength of any fee they receive for giving up their time to stand out in the middle each week !
Glad to see the N.C.U. have acted promptly and passed a direction for clubs to supply an umpire to help out, I believe the matter and the discussion about their fees should be now closed and lets get on with looking forward to the new season...and seeing a few more new umpires as well !
Very interesting to read some of the comments on here about umpiring fees, £100 per game or £70 outside Section 1 (old school), would clubs like Donaghadee, Drumaness, Dundrum, Clogher, Victoria, Portadown, etc that do not have bar facilities be able to pay these fees? would schools be able to pay these fees? Or do some people think that only "big" clubs should be looked after by the Union?
I would also mention that if a umpire was receiving £70 for standing in the middle on a saturday, they would then lose any means tested benefit they might otherwise be entitled to, though three games a week (Saturday Sunday and a midweek game, or a schools game) would be about the wage for a factory worker doing a 30 hour week.
I assume by "big" clubs Davy you mean wealthy?
And is this a no-win situation for certain clubs - put down for not supplying umpires and put down for providing a potential solution?
Yours are valid points but don't offer any alternative solutions...
Agree wholeheartedly with Ivans well thought-out post. Its sad but true money motivates.
Football referees get well paid for 2 hours "work" An intermediate standard ref has a flat fee of £40 plus mileage.
At club level it is getting harder and harder to keep guys playing down the teams, manning committees, helping with youth teams, grounds never mind travelling to games to officiate for 8-9 hours for buttons!
Umpire fees.
Surely if the fee is raised to £100 per game per umpire that's only £200 a game. A Senior Club plays 7 home league games a year and on average maybe 5 home cup games so 12 x £200 = £2,400 , maybe lesser fees but no less than I would suggest £70 outside the Premier League,
Now finding £2,500 use to be difficult for clubs but not now. Very average players are getting that sort of money just for playing on a Saturday. Maybe the Unions could get some aid from Cricket Ireland to subsidise this. They seem to be getting enough money to pay a back room team of three or four to run an Inter Pro side that will be watched by two men and a dog.
Yes it would be wonderful if people did it for the love of the sport but those are fanciful thoughts today and when we started paying pros, local players , groundsmen and did I hear scorers then why not umpires.
The numbers tell there own story and fewer and fewer ex players are taking up the coat so I really don't se the alternative. Of course those that still want to do it for the love of the game do have the option of giving the fee back to their own club.
Without umpires cricket starts to lose credibility as a sport which impacts on media coverage, sponsor interest and young people wanting to take up the game.
Some of the guys who have been earning money for playing the game over the last ten years could maybe be persuaded to umpire if they were going to continue to earn from the game.
Lets realise our game is changing just as our society is changing. Change or die. (I will expect that clown who doesn't even know who he is to come on again and say "Ivan, you take me to the fair").
I did umpire three games last season "for the love of the game" and will certainly do another few this season as fixtures allow.
Guy with family, mortgage, car etc etc, perhaps an extra £500 for umpiring some games in the summer may make them consider it?
Opinions welcome from current players!
to ask the assist editor - what would those senior players consider a realistic "wage"? If clubs expect umpires to stand in games then surely they should be reciprocating by providing umpires from within their membership to facilitate other games. I call it being responsible.
Andy, I think I must start by saying I am talking in terms of what I think should happen in reality, not what would happen in an ideal world.
The figure being discussed was £100 for a Premier League game. Now before anyone asks that was plucked from the air and has not had the 'ins and outs' discussed.
We have reached, in fact gone beyond, the point were there enough umpires to serve the local game so we must act.
Asking the clubs to force their members into umpiring I'm afraid is pointless as they will not do it but leave the game instead (ideal world scenario again).***
Financial reward has benefits for both the individual and club.
We can over the rights and wrongs of the responsibility of players to become umpires when they finish playing (just like dropping down the teams, working on the ground, coaching the kids etc etc) but in reality this just doesn’t happen as much nowadays, we can't fight that and more importantly, discussing how wrong it is won’t get people umpiring games.
So I think we need to settle for a practical solution.
And you never know when clubs see a financial benefit to providing umpires to NIACUS maybe there will be an increase in new members, maybe…
*** Just noticed that is in fact what is being proposed!!!
How Sad that People can't Officiate or play in a game without money
What have we become....
Money doesn't talk, it shouts!
just to clarify a possible misunderstanding. Rugby referees are given the opportunity to purchase international tickets - at face value. Invariably this is part of a "package deal" where tickets for more than one match have to be bought, is usually for one of the lesser international sides and is normally the top of the range tickets face value round 90euro so not really the "perk" that it first appears. As for selling on e-bay - don't think anyone would want to prejudice future allocations by getting involved in that. But this raises the question - would a free ticket for an Ireland game be an incentive for umpires? And I still take issue with guys who say that clubs can't be "made" to provide umpires. "Proper" cricket cannot be played without umpires so why can clubs not contribute to this vital issue? The alternative? - we all have heard horror stories of what happens "DOWN THE LEAGUES"!
Andy, I personally think that making clubs provide umpires may actually drive more people away from the game at a time when most clubs are struggling to hold on to the membership they have!
I actually think the solution is a much bigger fee, BUT, those clubs that provide the umpires should be rewarded with reduced fees accordingly and those that don't supply umpires, pay for the service.
I have spoken to a fee senior players who have said they would do a couple of games a year for a realistic 'wage'.
And of course the higher the league the greater the fee.
IPS
Asst Ed
Very saddened to hear my old French teacher has passed on.
Ernie was a real gentleman and a great and very enthusiastic cricketer and footballer , many a Friday morn his class subject was hijacked before he got his coat off as a young pupil with no real interest in learning any language would start to ask his thoughts about the next days football, then after easter the cricket talk continued to deprive the rest of the class of learning le verbs.
Im sure that all that passed through the establishment on the Magheralave road of a similar vintage of mine, will be saddened by the news.
Rest in Peace Ernie.
re JONATHAN AND UMPIRES ATTIRE
My reply was in jest hence the smiley face at the end of the remark.
I think Clarence realised that when he replied!
Sam,
In the old days in the North West some umpires wouldn't have done it for ten times that amount after a rough time at one of the grounds! We can't compare umpires with any other sports because they are different but 50 quid is a reasonable figure and no club is laying out 1800 quid on their own. Divide it by the clubs and you still come back to 100 quid a match for two umpires. Compare that to the players wages bill. Also, if clubs provide umpires they should be rewarded and its not a bad idea to look outside retired players as the only source of recruitment as someone has already suggested.
