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r.e Paul Stafford and Neil Hunter, fair enough guys.

On Ballymena surely the past 2 seasons Lazars and Aphale have both been at the club for financial reasons? Even if only one is the pro as such.

Thank you for the kind comments about Ballymena CC.
On behalf of the club I can state that we are all still very proud of our achievements back in 1998.
Unfortunately, though, as each summer passes it goes further and further into the past and the memory banks with no real hope of it being repeated in the near future.
We at Eaton Park work with a small number of players capable of performing at Premier League level and it keeps getting harder and harder to maintain our place in the top flight.
As a result we had to swallow that 1998 pride and join the rest by employing a pro for the past few years.
Personally I hate it but some at the club wanted to play and watch cricket at the highest level possible for as long as possible and felt that employing a pro would help that be achieved.
They should not - and I will not - criticise them for taking that stance.
We can't stop players being paid but we could stop the employment of numerous overseas players by introducing an education qualification. i.e. teams must play nine players in their 1st XI who had a secondary school education in Ireland.
That would leave two places open: one for a pro and one other.
We could also improve the cricketing education of teenagers by stipulating that a certain number of players aged 19 and under (maybe 2 or 3) should play in all 1st XIs.
Just a couple of ideas.
PS: To everyone within the NCU a Very Merry Xmas and a Happy New Year

Billy Dobbin

Disappointed to see your knee jerk reaction to Neil Hunter's point. Neil's views ARE well known and my own differ little from his. Your assertion that CI are attempting to buy the league also does not tell the whole story. Are there not players within CIYMS who disagree with the club's policy?
People can take a different view from within a club without being branded a hypocrite.
The Waringstown supporter is right saying there is a feeling you have to join them to compete. In Lurgan's case they felt they needed to bring in support from outside but as the club was new to this it didn't exactly recruit that well. In fairness we would have competed every bit as well than without those two players.

For 2014 we will do well holding onto some of our players. It is the aggressive poaching of some of the Premier clubs that is more of a threat to the smaller clubs than playing alongside overseas players.

Cricket at the top level in Ireland has undoubtedly improved out of all recognition but I believe the NCU is struggling. I played for Lisburn throughout most of the and 90's and then after a longer break played one season with Lisburn in the premier league in 2010. From these experiences, I would argue that the top 3-4 players in each club are at a much higher level than the 90s but there is no longer the same strength in depth. Most teams could put out 11 quality cricketers week in week out in the 90's but this was certainly not the case in 2010. There definitely seems to be a problem in keeping young players in the club game.

Sledge of the Ashes so far goes to Matt Prior who welcomed a struggling Steve Smith to the wicket with a provocative "You're one match away from being dropped mate."
Several hours later Smith jumped for joy after scoring an unbeaten century and could perhaps play the pivotal role in regaining the Ashes.
Thanks Matt-you are one of the game's great motivators!

You are 100% right Nile. Ballymena is living proof that you can exist on home produce and a catchment area with one overseas pro. Also, they have sustained it. What I like most about them is the way they play the game and the team spirit they show. Great bunch of guys with solid cricket people running the club and a cricket pedigree second to none.

Congratulations Ireland.
Great performance to round up another successful season. If our game is measured from the top down then the current squad and management have set a high standard.
Also, thanks for the memories Trent Johnston. I doubt if Cricket Ireland could have achieved its success in the past decade without our "extended family" so when we measure the contribution of overseas pros let's not forget what they have contributed at the highest level. Trent will always be at the top of this list for a magnificent contribution.

Great question Nile.

I've managed 20 so far. Some of them played Test cricket after they had been here, especially more recent ones, which I hope is ok.

Clue: India 6, New Zealand 5, Zimbabwe 3, Pakistan 2, West Indies 2, Sri Lanka 1, South Africa 1.

Can anyone name them?
Some of these go way back to the 70's!

No doubt I've missed a few!

great question mr smith. its maybe a gross under estimination but i have managed to piece together six test players

Christmas Quiz
Does anyone (i'm looking over at the anorak / statto brigade) know how many test players have played for NCU clubs? I've got some 'up my sleeve' but hopefully someone will provide the definitive answer.

Michael Taylor's point about Ballymena CC may have been diluted in this discussion format. I have not met anyone in ncu cricket who would not agree that their success in 1998 and survival in PL has been achieved by team ethos rather than paying more than one pro. In fact i don't think that they had a pro in 98!

To blame pros on poor league standards is a nonsense. The reality is that in the modern world the desire for youngsters playing cricket beyond the age of 15 and 16 is diminishing. This then leads to a loss of talent and quality reducing. Having played senior cricket for a long time I am in no doubt that playing with top quality pros raises the standard of those aspiring to progress further in the game - there is no better experience than playing with a stand out professional week in week out.

Some great debate on the forum,

I am a Waringstown supporter and as everyone knows we were always anti-professional. Realistically this was probably the case in the 70's, 80's and 90's due to the fact we were in the fortunate position not to need one.

That in truth probably changed when we were relegated with a young team in 1999. Most of our defeats that year came at the hands of opposition professionals & some of the influential younger players vowed 'that if you can't beat them, join them'

We have employed one every year since & like many clubs, despite the best will in the world, have manged to get little or no contribution to coaching. Again, as we are in the fortunate position to have a very active ex-player involvement, its not something we have got all that hung-up on,

What the future holds re: Pro's no-one knows however while our competitor clubs employ them I'm sure so will we. We won't at the expense of our ground/machinery/pavilion/kids coaching though.

As I see it, the biggest danger in the NCU is the Irish-passport holder & also the aggressive recruitment policy some are following. Firstly, no-one can argue with the contribution of the likes of N Jones, R West etc however unfortunately many others are here one year, gone the next....making an ordinary contribution at best. Its fair to say that teams employing them become almost faceless & while 1 or 2 good years can be bought, its usually comes at a severe long-term cost.

Clubs I feel have to try and put as much emphasis into developing their own young players even if that means a couple of barron years. Those brought up through the club will always have more drive & commitment to win & all the successful teams always have a foundation of locally produced players,

You only have to look at our great rivals over the last 10yrs at Comber. Their success has been built on a die-hard core of the likes of Shields, R Haire, Moreland et all. These sorts of players bring the sort of design & will to win that money can't buy.

Like other clubs, we've had battles in the last few years trying to ward off clubs trying to entice our young players. The offers are probably getting more lucrative & aggressive, probably in truth as clubs get thinner & weaker in terms of their own strength & depth. Mathematically, the prize money doesn't warrant the outlay so you must assume that some clubs are getting increasingly worried about their own short-term position that recruit at all cost is their only option. I just hope this doesn't led us down the same path as the NW & what has happened at Limavady in particular.

I really shouldn't bite Phil but I'd say that the likes of my own club, Derriaghy and possibly some others in section one would disagree with your assessment. I unlike others on this forum don't feel the need to blow my own clubs trumpet. I'll let the facts speak for themselves.

The points made by Simon & Neil are absolutely correct. Standards of League cricket are much lower than when pros were introduced and it will be interesting to see if one of the high-spending clubs will be investing in new sightscreens. But then again it depends where priorities lie. Michael Taylor - my recollection is that Kiran played for the full season at Ballymena with a few Sunday appearences for Coleraine and became their pro the following season. And you are correct when you say that he paid his own fare. I recall the letter that Abi sent during the winter saying that there was a young player on his club side who "could benefit from playing in English (sic) conditions and he could become a useful cricketer". What a prediction!