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Clarence

I am just saying that in an 8 team league there is no margin for error. And young players need to be able to make mistakes so they can learn from them.

Take Ballymena and Muckamore as an example. The cricket cannot be much fun at the moment as there is so much pressure on them. If they were in the league below they would be winning most of their games and it would be more competitive and enjoyable.

In a 10 team top flight they would have at least 2 other teams they could beat and it would allow them space to develop.
(Hypothetical Situation)
Lets assume though for a second that the NCU decided that they prefer a 6 team league as those clubs aren't up to the mark.
What then would be Lisburn's position? They would feel they would have to increase their spending to compete at the top level and would have two less home gates at the bar on a Saturday afternoon. Would their season become more enjoyable in a league of 6? I doubt it.

Perhaps they could play more league games (15) by playing each other 3 times. Therefore you would have 6 competitive teams playing lots of good matches. This is what Cricket Ireland want. But what is the knock on effect. If Lisburn got relegated the team promoted would be out of their depth. Lisburn would lose some of their best players to the top five. They would be immediately promoted a year later but weaker than before.

The relegated club will have been roundly thrashed all year. They will lose there best players to the remaining big 5. Some will retire and some will move thinking it will be more enjoyable somewhere else.

Lisburn will be weaker than before and therefore will be a lot less competitive than they were 2 years earlier. We have now created a top flight of 5 with one whipping boy. No problem says Cricket Ireland, each Union only have 5 or 6 competitive teams. we will create an All Ireland League with 5 from NW and NCU and 6 from LCU. We now have 15 competitive teams in Ireland playing really good cricket.......

Can anyone see where I am going with argument? Is this what is happening now? What will happen to the clubs that are left?

Ryan
Nobody is questioning the NCU Development Officers commitment. I am asking the question. If his job remit is to count heads playing Kwik cricket for Cricket Ireland then that is what he must do.

But Warren Deutrom cannot glibly say about a 400% increase in player participation without it being questioned or clarified. Where did you get those figures? What is your definition of a player? What is your definition of participation? What timescale are you talking about?

If the clubs have shown they are prepared to make sacrifices for CI then what are CI doing for the clubs?

Andy i didn't mention the expenditure on spectator seating. And i should have recognised the contribution by umpires designated as muckamore. I did mention the youth camps, charity nights, community events, new ladies team and fifth XI but billy knocked me back. He doesn't want to hear about that sort of thing it seems.

Thanks Staffy.
I'm still not sure what you are saying about 10 v 8. Are you saying more teams in the premier section allows more teams to develop at the higher level?
I agree 100% with the sentiments in your last paragraph as indeed many people should but cricket these days is a completely new world than 20 years ago. Also, on player movement I had a quick look at the transfers and the overwhelming number of transfers are outside the premier league. Some of those in it are cosmetic. We know some players have moved for money but perhaps the problem is not as big as it could be. After all each team can only field 11 players!
Good to hear your views. Anybody out there support 8 teams? After all 2/3 of the union voted for it at the AGM.

Thanks for the kind words Colin we are merely trying to mirror what clubs like templepatrick have done as well as derriaghy

For us that is the model to follow. Hopefully see you next week for that friendly match

In response to Davy McC - I totally understand that 15 odd overs was reduced to 2.2 overs under DL and that the cut off point of actually 6.11 meant that the remainder of the full game was not possible - even though light and conditions were fine. However the regulations were implemented to the letter as both captains acknowledged. The regulations are in fact very sensible. Say for example we got back on at 7.30 the final 15 overs could not have been completed - would you suggest the final 5 overs on Monday. It is in fact a very sensible regulation - although may not always seem that way - but you simply can't make up regulations for each individual game situation

For the benefit of those who don't read the CI forum I repeat my comments about being in the NW last weekend. It was interesting to see a "junior" club - Killyclooney - had an electronic scoreboard that functioned perfectly - no brush in sight!. Clearly the money is being invested in the right direction. And an (Easy)jetsetter late for today's Cup Final!! Really have fears as to where our game is going

I have already posted comments on Paul Stafford's posting on the "other" forum but he is absolutely correct. By the way Nile - in your posting about Muckamore you forgot to mention the number of umpires that Moylena is providing. Just thought I'd mention this. I don't speak for NIACUS but when one looks at the sides who are topping the Premier League vis-a-vis the club affiliation of umpires there appears to be a little disparity.

Home after watching a thrilling game of cricket unfold in the NCU's "showpiece" turn into a farce as with the game delicately poised for reasons unknown to the cricketing fan that had attended despite a poor forecast, was turned into a farce due to the shameful cut off time of 6.15.
Congratulations to CSNI for winning the trophy, but if we are to try and encourage people to attend the game, common sense MUST prevail.

re Paul Stafford - its a while since I have played but having umpired a few games over the last 2 seasons and watching games on almost every Saturday/Sunday of the season you have hit the nail on the head - lack of respect, sledging and no sense of fun.

Clubs need to be investing (time not money) in youth and instilling values of respect on top of wanting to win. Excellent youth set ups like Cregagh should be lauded and the kids playing there hopefully will stay and help Cregagh rise through the leagues. There are other good clubs out there too but what is the point of playing in a team if you look around a dressing room and 6/7 or more of your team mates are only there because they are getting a few quid. Invest in kids and your grounds. The better players I assume will still want to play if they are not paid or will they take to the golf course and earn a few £ there?

I cannot comment on 8/10 team leagues nor cricket development officer but it is clear from even a cursory glance of the lower & Junior leagues that clubs need to step back and take a look as we have went from all clubs fielding U15/13/11s plus 3or 4 senior teams to what is currently looking a bit sparse in terms of fixtures.

Much like Andy Kennedy these are my own views and not those of NIACUAS nor Templepatrick.

Hi folks, I am helping out with Templepatrick Under 13 B's this season and am looking to pencil in a few more B fixtures in August. We have a squad of 22 at Under 13s this year and are very keen to get all of the boys playing as many matches as possible. I have emailed everyone mentioned in the Fixture book but would be happy to travel if anyone out there can provide a fixture. If so please text me on 07837413222.

Clarence
You asked the question 'What is the benefit of 10 teams over 8?'
You can follow that logic through: What is the of 8 teams over 6 (good argument at the moment)? or 6 teams over 4, or 4 teams or 2? Where do we stop?

What is that really matters? The strength of North Down, Waringstown, CIYMS, Instonians and CSN or the strength of the NCU as a whole?

Should we care if Downpatrick, Lurgan Bangor, Carrickfergus, Woodvale and Cliftonville (all recent top flight clubs) dwindle and diminish?

If those clubs continue to have their best players cherry picked then other remaining good players tend to quit rather than join another club. The gap widens to the point that they no longer can compete. At this point the club merely exists rather than having any great driving ambition to move forward.

Those clubs that do want to move forward are left with no choice but to throw money at it. Helping young players develop is a long term strategy and won't yield results short term. In the meantime top clubs can pick off those young players and pass them off as their own in a few years if they succeed. If not well no loss if they drift away from the game, someone else is bound to produce a cricketer for us.

Thus we have the law of the jungle. 8 team top league has shown very quickly that the top players go to the top clubs. That was exactly what it set out to achieve. But at what cost?

League fixture are sacrificed for 20 over competitions and Ulster Cup/Shield competitions that by and large people and players don't take that seriously.

Let's grow the Union for the benefit of all clubs not just a few. Let's create space to develop young players so the sport here has a future rather than for the benefit of the mercenaries with their hands held out.

It's good to hear from Staffy again. Some good comments. Where do you start on these issues?
In agreement with the 10 teams 100%. Why should there only be a couple of teams fighting it out at the bottom. Obviously clubs do have their own interests at stake. Lurgan will see themselves in a similar situation if they go up as in 2013. They brought in a second and third overseas player to try and stay in the top league and probably will do the same again. In their defence however, they are no worse than any of some of the top teams who do it for success.
It's hard to understand any of it coming from my background. Dinosaur, has been and washed up are all comments thrown at me in the lower sections, but everyones entitled to play the odd game and have an opinion. I come from a village which didn't need a pro, played with great successful teams like Lurgan, North Down and Strabane who only had one overseas player so could somebody please explain to me what's going on in local club cricket. Maybe the prize money has increased dramatically because the crowds certainly have not.

Totally agree with Paul Staffords post in its entirety... apart from about the NCU Development Ofiicer, he has been down at Armagh several times and has a real interest and passion for the job if the clubs want to work with him. Running about after Kwik Cricket tournaments, youth coaching and Ladies cricket isnt the most glamourous of roles but it shouldn't go unnoticed.

Clarence I'm not too sure about the 8 team league better preparing players for rep. cricket because as Staffy points out a lot of these players are coming through passport control. A 10 team league would at least give the bottom 5 sides a chance of a few victories when they play one another. Whereas at the moment the bottom 2 in the Premier League are getting stuffed week in week out, and as we all know getting beaten week after week is no fun at all.

Don't even get me started about Cricket Ireland!!