Forum

re Alan

Personally I can see 10 team leagues just spreading the sweeteners to players to compete at the top level and I fail to see just how it will alter the 16 - 17 year old issue. As for the regulation of 1 pro it's the old issue of how do you define a pro and home grown player? Are local players who get paid pros and if not why not? If locals are paid coaches and also paid to play does that count? Is the barman at the club a pro no matter where they come from? How do you define home grown? The NCU, and others I'm sure, have tried for years to regulate this and given your post with little success.

The issue of Irish passport holders is even more tricky. Most likely all home grown players will be able to hold Irish passports and I'm sure that some do. Do they count towards this quota? What about British passport holders who are not home grown, for example holders of ancestry visas?
I'm not in any way disagreeing with what your trying to do but unfortunately life is never that simple. I think that we should be trying to play to as many NCU developed players in NCU competitions as possible and when I see that the Northern Knights squad is only about half developed here I think it's a bit of an own goal (and I include players from other Unions as not developed here).

Gareth if you read my comment again . John's suggestion was to divert £5k from the overseas player budget into a prize fund not an additional £5k they had to find.
I can't think where there is a lack of a suitable toilet. I've played for over 40 years and at most grounds on numerous occasions and have never had a problem getting to a toilet.
If someone having to walk a few extra yards for a pee is all us cricket lovers have to worry about then cricket is in a healthy state .
It's never going to be perfect but clubs slagging other clubs over a toilet or a score board not working properly isn't really helping us all to grow the game.
I hope to celebrate 50 years playing in the NCU in 2020 by captaining Muckamore 8ths so growing the game not only at youth level but inviting back people who maybe quit when they had kids who have now grown up or who had Saturday jobs is all part of increasing the numbers. By increasing the numbers we get healthier clubs. Simply by adding a fifths , an additional midweek team and a ladies team this season we have had increased numbers at our social occasions and our fund raising efforts and a significant increase in membership fees and in turn bar takings.
The core of our fifths hadn't played for over twenty years and are just loving been involved in a team sport again. My own brother hadn't played for over 30 years and this year will have played over 30 games between 3rds, 4ths and midweek cricket. He has made a host of new friends and hopefully will play another five years or so. I genuinely believe there are many more like these guys out there and with the reduction to 35, 30 and 25 overs we have a sport to get them involved. Most practice nights this year at Moylena we had over 50 people in attendance.and that despite our 1sts having a torrid time in the Premier League.
I think with the proper enthusiasm cricket is far from dying.

let me say at the outset that I have the utmost respect for David Edwards dating back to the days when we tried to get out teams comprising "decrepit old age and youthful exuberance" and I can appreciate the efforts to get a team out at the bottom of the club. It is always as a last resort that one called a game off. And don't get me started on the historical issues of "starring". I recall one club where I thought we were going to get international caps for turning out against them!! I do however take issue with his comments about improvement in facilities, particularly some Premier clubs. When I posted recently about the lack of investment I was pilloried for mentioning a particular scoreboard! The point that Gareth Evans makes about lack of toilets caused some embarrassment during a recent under-age Interpro when one of the lads was looking for "facilities". This is the sort of area that has been discussed, if the reports of the recent Chairmen's meeting are accurate, and will possibly be implemented. However, turkeys don't vote for Christmas!! The situation has now reached ridiculous levels with guys being parachuted in to endeavour to protect league positions. There is a lot of discussion around the clubs about a particular player and, if rumours are correct, then the four balls that he has faced in the two games that I have seen him in work out at £300 a ball!! And that I'm not just referring to the Premier league. Is that a real investment in the future? I'm sure that there are those who will disagree with me but going round clubs in the last few weeks I get the distinct impression that there is a lack of enthusaism for promotion from section 1. On a "blank" Bank Holiday I was reading through regulations (as you do!) and I was interested to see that there is a responsibility placed on clubs regarding the behaviour of 'supporters". Whilst this applies to the BKISC, I cannot see any similar constraint in the NCU regs. Does this mean that there is "open season" for any spectator to take issue with an umpire or indeed a player, either during a game or afterwards, without any recourse? I can't see any provision to cover this situation and ask if not, why not? Again someone may correct me. I also note "Billy Dobbin" having another pop at Muckamore as if Ivan's suggestion had ulterior motives.

A lot of interesting comments over the past week or two regarding the re designing of the league setup and the lack of 16/17 year old players. My personal point a view is a change to 10 teams in the Premier League is needed, although the suggestion of a 12 team League with a split at the half way stage also has some merit to it. I would get rid of the Ulster Cup, with a T20 Competition between NCU and NW clubs on a regional basis with the top 4 playing off in a Finals Day at 1 ground. I would also propose that all Premier teams are only allowed 1 Pro and 1 Irish Passport or 2 Irish Passport holders and they must have at least 4 home grown players, with 2 being under the age of 18 in the team. Problem is getting the teams to agree to this!! This might give the younger lads the incentive to play more cricket, if they believe that they have a chance of playing at the top level. Just a few thoughts on a wet afternoon!!

Re Billy/Ivan

Billy I am not looking to start a war of words not saying I agree with Ivan's proposal however I think the point he is making is that 22 people were let down, it is not all about the 1st team and as passionate as Ivan is about MCC I do not think that it was he is intimating in the slightest. Ivan is a cricket man to the bone as are the majority of the contributors to this forum, we all seem to agree cricket is on the wane, perhaps if we all looked at the 3rd/4th/5ths players and made their lives a bit better then just maybe everything else would fall into place.

Re David Edwards
I won't deny there was a hint of "red mist" about when I wrote that post however my reason for suggesting that the 1sts lose points (and yesterday someone suggested to me all a club's teams should lose points) was to focus the minds of others within the club rather than leave the captain of the bottom team to fend for himself. Walk overs are featuring more and more and it's not only effecting the club who can't get a team but the opposition. The quickest way to drive people away from our game is to leave them with no match at short notice . I think we maybe focus to much on the top leagues and boys cricket yet forget that the majority of people playing our game are sandwiched in the middle of those two extremes . I think clubs need to take more responsibility for making sure they can field the number of teams they enter. I know a few clubs might then enter less teams but is that not maybe more desirable than letting opponents down. I don't ever proclaim to have all the answers or indeed any answers but I care about the game and aim certainly don't for one minute subscribe to the theory that it's "dying on its feet". It may require surgery and it will " recover" quickly if more people commit to making it better.

Ivan do you really think that all clubs have 5k to put into a prize fund? You're in dreamland. For most clubs if they have that kind of money it should be spent on improving ground facilities/machinery etc. E.G. It's a joke that one of our leading Premier League teams doesn't even have a proper toilet in it's so called changing rooms!!!

Docking a clubs 1st team points for the lowest team having to scratch a fixture. I have never heard anything so ridiculous in my life. How is that promoting cricket by punishing the players who actually do turn out?

There is a real problem right throught 90% of the NCU clubs, cricket is dying on its feet and the standard is dropping.

Just having a glance these are a few of the clubs would have lost 1st XI points if that suggestion was implemented... North Down, CIYMS, Downpatrick, Derriaghy, CSNI, Saintfield, Millpark, Lisburn, Lurgan, Laurelvale, Academy, Instonians. Many of these have more than one concession so far this season. That would look good going through the 1st XI leagues... maybe it might have kept Muckamore up?

At today's Premier League game Muckamore v Lisburn there were numerous debates on changes or possible changes to League structures , overseas and / or paid players .
One idea that I heard from the very experienced and respected John McCormick was " if clubs are forking out £10k on players why not reduce that to £5k and put the other £5k into a prize fund with the winners maybe getting £25k."
Haven't heard that idea before but maybe we need some " outside the box thinking ".
I think it's a great credit to the spirit and quality of the Ballymena team that they have survived now for 7 successive seasons in the top flight with only one paid player in each of those seasons ( in fact there might have been a few of those years they had no overseas professional ). They are probably already installed as favourites to go down next season - but I wouldn't be so sure.
Some clubs seem to now favour a ten team PL and I think those clubs would want it in 2015. That may require a rule change about league structures taking immediate effect but then that's what the AGM is for.
I think the idea I heard today of a 12 team league with everyone playing each other once and then splitting into two leagues of six and then play each other once giving a total of 16 games. ( Irish League football has a system like this ) merits discussion .
I also think great credit should be given to Neil Gill and Uel Graham who kept the morale up at Muckamore despite losing every game.

re Ivan McCombe

As you are aware I am one of those people that contacted you yesterday and it was as early as I could (and before 10pm by some distance). You paint an ideal picture of how things should be with lots of advertising and cajoling bringing enough players for 6 teams but I'm afraid it is not that simple.
I captain a 4th XI whose purpose is to permit U13 and U15 players an introduction into the senior game in order to help develop their game. As such I am at the mercy of being bottom of the Club's feeding chain and also the wishes of parents to have a final family getaway before the return of schools. In the interests of cricket I tried for as long as humanly possible to put together a team but in the end I would have needed to play mainly U11 cricketers and I'm sure you would neither think it appropriate from a child safety viewpoint nor would you want me to breach the NCU rules on Child Protection by not having prior approval from them. I have things outside cricket to occupy my mind and having spent a lot of time on this, including in effect the whole of Friday, I don't feel happy about having to sit about either.
Your plan to deduct points from a 1st XI on the basis of non-fullfilment of fixtures of lower teams is frankly impractical. The fixture meetings for logistical purposes take place about 6 months before the start of the season and fixtures for lower teams are agreed as much on the basis of ground availability as anything else. Without a crystal ball it is impossible to know who is taking holidays when, who is doing exams when, who will retire mid-season, who will have decided that there is another sport that holds more interest, who will get a part time job to earn some spending money and as such there will be times when getting out the required teams is not possible. With this rule we would all need to have less teams and that is obviously not helping the development of the game.
It is apparent that you have written this whilst in a serious strop, but no matter how angry you felt you should have waited until you had calmed down before venting your spleen on the forum. Your idealistic solutions are based on the premise that cricket is the only sport but in this country it is still very much a minority sport and with the demise of seasonal sports it has too much competition.

Ivan - I totally agree. Unacceptable from the teams in question. From my limited knowledge I think that Ulster Hockey operates the suggested system of punishing clubs for scratched fixtures.

I feel anger tonight and disappointed. Like many others in clubs around the island I have knocked my pan in encouraging people young and old to play cricket . As a result Muckamore have fielded 5 league teams on the same day as well as two midweek league times and thanks to the efforts of others a ladies team this season.
Next season we plan to field 6 teams and probably three midweek teams and it's not beyond the realms of possibility that we will have a 2 nds team.
Now growth like that doesn't happen by accident . It happens by advertising for people no matter of age or ability to come along and play . It happens by coaxing people to play a few more years as their senior careers come to an end, it happens by encouraging young players to turn out on a Saturday.
Why am I angry ? Well at 10pm tonight I got two text messages informing me that our 4 ths and 5 ths opponents tomorrow were " scratching ".
The result if that is that 22 players at a Muckamore are left twiddling their sums tomorrow.
Here's my solution . If a lower team in a club pulls out of a fixture then that clubs 1sts are deducted 4 points.
That would soon focus the thinking. As a club we are left with 22 disenchanted players tomorrow. Some players turning down work to play , some turning away from family reunions to play .
As cricket lovers first and foremost can we think " cricket first and club second ".

a book is being done for my Dad Thomas Duncan who died this July 2014.
I am looking rather urgently for some old or recent photos of Dad playing so if possible can u contact me on 07563931136 to have these photos.
I know there is one in 1959 I think but haven't received any so anyone who has some would be appreciated if you could contact me to arrange to have a copy.

Paul
At the Management Board meeting where it was decided to propose the introduction of 8 team leagues you got up and left after that decision never to return and I was not curious enough to enquire why and Wylie noted at the next meeting that you had resigned but (rightly) gave no reason. Neither patronising nor utter rubbish but based on the evidence that was before me. Either way, you had a chance to influence the direction of local cricket from its administrative source but chose to shout from the sidelines.
In response to your last paragraph, we do want the same things but most likely disagree on how far we have come and the best way to continue on that path. I started playing competive cricket in 1978 and I've seen considerable improvement in facilities in that time and not just within my current club. To my mind there has also been a considerable improvement in standards and a very simple demonstration of that would be the number of home grown players throughout Ireland that now ply their trade on the county circuit; in my day the only one that I can think of is the late Dermot Monteith.
Participation levels is always going to be a contentious issue and it is difficult to judge by just taking a club view; we need to take an all Ireland view. Whether the 400% is an accurate estimate is really up to the reliability of statistics and indeed the data that is obtained from clubs that feed those statistics. It sounds a very impressive headline figure and we have a right to question cricket Ireland about this but perhaps the best place for that would be if they participated in the Union AGMs and held a question and answer session; if Warren Deutrom decides to answer your question then he may find a flood of others that would take up his time when he is trying to promote Cricket Ireland at the political levels.
My personal view is that participation is increasing at younger levels but it seems to wane at around the age of 16 and 17 and I would postulate that there are many reasons for this. In the days when you and I started (and a lot of the Management Board also) there was less to do and personal transport was less available. School examinations consisted of 'O' levels and 'A' levels instead of the constant stream of examinations and associated studying that we have today. What I see at the lower levels of my own club is that as soon as the examinations stop there is an exodus from this country and it can be difficult to rekindle the interest as soon as they return, in effect more than half way through the season. To my mind many a good player has been lost due to this and it was interesting to hear Fergus Slattery at a dinner state that despite Blackrock College having two Under 19 teams each year they struggled to get senior teams out. Locally, with a lot of clubs having an U15 team that will be refreshed every other year why are there not an increasing number of senior teams? I also see that players tend to stop playing at an earlier age and no longer drop down through the club but I'm buoyed by the increase in lads and dads teams that I'm starting to see.

Very sad to learn of "Gentleman" Jim Simpson's passing. Excellent tribute from Clarence and he has covered everything. As a young cub reporter he took me under his wing and his wise counsel kept me up to date with all things in the North West and he was a good friend ever since. My condolences to the family circle, especially Dean, David and Richard