Forum

Ivan - ask the guys in Section 2 & 3 about the "dream" of Premiership cricket. This is what I mean by "social" cricket. Sides trying to hang in there to keep a cricket "presence" in their area. Willie Adrain turning out for Dungannon at Larne recently - he's nearly as old as you!! Also - was there not some regulation about no pros outside of the top 2 Sections? I could go on but I've got to get reacy for my "ice challenge" and a big thank you to my grandson Jack for the nomination.

David
"At the Management Board meeting where it was decided to propose the introduction of 8 team leagues you got up and left..."

Again not true, and highly unfair to hint that it was some sort of strop. I was in the Competitions directorate and it was they who nominated me for the NCU Board. I attended one meeting and barely spoke. I missed the next through business and at the end of the third Wylie had been pushed forward to ask me to resign.
The reason given I was playing in the NW (for family reasons). Ludicrous. For a start I wouldn't have discussed NCU matters outside the meeting nor would anyone in the Brigade team been interested in them.

It was clear there were members of NCU had an agenda of their own and that was the excuse they wanted. (I had once described some of them as nodding dogs and that's the type of board member I reckon they prefer).

I made a very positive contribution to the Competitions Directorate which Roger Bell will confirm. I attended 2 Board meetings barely spoke and was asked to resign. Its clear I was not wanted there. Any other reasons you hear why I left are b*lls**t.

This all happened 6 years ago and is water under the bridge to everyone but you apparently. I stopped playing and quit my blog shortly after and have said very little since so you cannot say I have been continually shouting from the sidelines.

I have made my point on the 8 team league issue because I felt somebody had to. I have played in the Union for almost thirty years now and have represented it with Ulster Town back in the days when the NCU had two teams at the top of the Interpros and regularly won the ISC. I am entitled to an opinion irrespective of whether I am on the NCU board.

I fail to understand the term " social cricket ". If the measurement is that we aren't very good then is all sport in Northern Ireland " social " . Ards Rangers 2nds can't be compared to Real Madrid but try telling guys training twice a week that they are only playing a social game.
If sport is played competitively then it's a waste of time . Everyone should want to test themselves against the best. I remember knowing that John Solanky was coming to Lisburn before most as my boss at the time Eddie Lockhart played for them. I was 17 and just started playing for Muckamore and thought it was great that better players were coming to play in Northern Ireland.
I remember how exciting it was to bowl to Sharma at Instonians , Mankad at Lisburn , Lamba at Cliftonville and North Down etc . These guys made you raise your game. Bowling a maiden to these guys was a minor victory.
In sport there has to be winners and losers. Once we get rid of the pros will we then say that if you are capped by Ireland you have to retire when you get to 50 or can only bowl 5 overs . All this tinkering with selection like " must include 2 under 18's " etc I think is a real nonsense. Selection should be the best eleven against the best eleven. If young players are good enough they will be picked if not why should a better 19 or 20 year old player be dropped because of his age.
No matter what tinkering we do I think the top clubs today will be the top clubs tomorrow.

Is the editor suggesting that all clubs have the same amount of finance available? Surely the top clubs should be striving for excellence but it must be accepted that the vast majority of clubs are prepared to settle for social cricket. To do otherwise doesn't make sense. Does anyone remember the story of the king's new clothes?

I wanted to add to the whole professional debate.

From what I can gather, the basic going rate in each team in the premier league is 15k on average on players.

On a ground perspective, imagine what investing even half of that in pitches would do?

I have been very lucky this past few seasons at Muckamore in that I have had money put into a few projects. We upgraded the roller, brought in a number of new machines, and spend thousands on the outfields. And the program will continue.

I believe the grounds in the union have so much more to offer if they were invested in.

We now live in an era of paid players, paid coaches, whats next....paid groundsmen???

Improving club infrastructure + grounds + youth participation + 1 x paid overseas cricketer per club = money well spent !

Hiring 1, 2 or more cricket players for clandestine £ + bonuses = jolly money + leaves a sour taste + cause of disharmony/ dissatisfaction for all genuine cricket lovers !

I think you'll find my sums add up ?

Alan C.
That's exactly what happened on Saturday. Our 4ths played our 5ths.
David Edwards
You make a very valid point. If the NCU want to see more home grown players why not select a homegrown Knights? The argument that it would create an unlevel playing field could only be described as hypocritical as that's exactly the argument at club level. Also this stance that only Premier League players will be selected does little to encourage club loyalty or stop the polarization of the best players at a handful of clubs.

Re IPS ..the point is why do clubs spend most if not all their jolly money on 'pros', professionals, coaches, mavericks, mercenaries, money-chasers or whatever they're known as and not on improving their own club facilities, home grown talent, youth infrastructure etc?

To raise the question and comparison as you do, are facilities better at the many cricket clubs who don't pay players is a rather moot and obscure one, ie

Those particular cricket clubs more than likely do not have the readily available financial funds to splash out on state of the art five star accommodation, cars, electronic gizmos and free-bees etc. etc. never mind begin considering paying players but then again, perhaps I'm becoming cynical and too old fashioned as I mature with age, if folk nowadays prefer watching cricket games to find out which club has the fattest wallet then quite simply.... I' m outta here !

Sorry Ivan but I must agree with Gareth. It IS about toilets and scoreboards. It would be interesting to see a report on the condition of pitches. Don't let anyone tell me that pitches are getting better. Lack of investment in the infrastructure will replicate the falling standards. And let's face it - we all know to which club Gareth refers!

Ivan I wasn't slagging off any club merely stating a fact. There are clubs who are spending lots of money on players even though their ground facilities and/or machinery could do with upgrading. Such an approach makes no sense to me.

Ivan.
Letting opponents down is something I'm sure that no club wants to do. However, 22 disappointed players is only one side of the story. Quite often the 'walkover' problem begins with 1st team players being unavailable, and the problem then drip feeds down to the lower teams. This results in many young players having to play in a match that is above their ability. batting at 11 if at all, not bowling, and fielding at fine leg all day does nothing at all to encourage young players. If a thirds team is reduced to 5 players this way and has to concede, then 16 players don't get a game, and a further 6 young players will be involved in a match which may do more to put them off cricket than encourage them.
Worth remembering that NCU is not the only vehicle for the provision of cricket, and clubs are responsible for providing cricket for their 'fee paying' members. You had 22 players with no match because of walkovers, that's unfortunate but sadly unavoidable these days it seems. All you needed was a roll out mat and a football pitch - game on ;)

re Alan

Personally I can see 10 team leagues just spreading the sweeteners to players to compete at the top level and I fail to see just how it will alter the 16 - 17 year old issue. As for the regulation of 1 pro it's the old issue of how do you define a pro and home grown player? Are local players who get paid pros and if not why not? If locals are paid coaches and also paid to play does that count? Is the barman at the club a pro no matter where they come from? How do you define home grown? The NCU, and others I'm sure, have tried for years to regulate this and given your post with little success.

The issue of Irish passport holders is even more tricky. Most likely all home grown players will be able to hold Irish passports and I'm sure that some do. Do they count towards this quota? What about British passport holders who are not home grown, for example holders of ancestry visas?
I'm not in any way disagreeing with what your trying to do but unfortunately life is never that simple. I think that we should be trying to play to as many NCU developed players in NCU competitions as possible and when I see that the Northern Knights squad is only about half developed here I think it's a bit of an own goal (and I include players from other Unions as not developed here).

Gareth if you read my comment again . John's suggestion was to divert £5k from the overseas player budget into a prize fund not an additional £5k they had to find.
I can't think where there is a lack of a suitable toilet. I've played for over 40 years and at most grounds on numerous occasions and have never had a problem getting to a toilet.
If someone having to walk a few extra yards for a pee is all us cricket lovers have to worry about then cricket is in a healthy state .
It's never going to be perfect but clubs slagging other clubs over a toilet or a score board not working properly isn't really helping us all to grow the game.
I hope to celebrate 50 years playing in the NCU in 2020 by captaining Muckamore 8ths so growing the game not only at youth level but inviting back people who maybe quit when they had kids who have now grown up or who had Saturday jobs is all part of increasing the numbers. By increasing the numbers we get healthier clubs. Simply by adding a fifths , an additional midweek team and a ladies team this season we have had increased numbers at our social occasions and our fund raising efforts and a significant increase in membership fees and in turn bar takings.
The core of our fifths hadn't played for over twenty years and are just loving been involved in a team sport again. My own brother hadn't played for over 30 years and this year will have played over 30 games between 3rds, 4ths and midweek cricket. He has made a host of new friends and hopefully will play another five years or so. I genuinely believe there are many more like these guys out there and with the reduction to 35, 30 and 25 overs we have a sport to get them involved. Most practice nights this year at Moylena we had over 50 people in attendance.and that despite our 1sts having a torrid time in the Premier League.
I think with the proper enthusiasm cricket is far from dying.

let me say at the outset that I have the utmost respect for David Edwards dating back to the days when we tried to get out teams comprising "decrepit old age and youthful exuberance" and I can appreciate the efforts to get a team out at the bottom of the club. It is always as a last resort that one called a game off. And don't get me started on the historical issues of "starring". I recall one club where I thought we were going to get international caps for turning out against them!! I do however take issue with his comments about improvement in facilities, particularly some Premier clubs. When I posted recently about the lack of investment I was pilloried for mentioning a particular scoreboard! The point that Gareth Evans makes about lack of toilets caused some embarrassment during a recent under-age Interpro when one of the lads was looking for "facilities". This is the sort of area that has been discussed, if the reports of the recent Chairmen's meeting are accurate, and will possibly be implemented. However, turkeys don't vote for Christmas!! The situation has now reached ridiculous levels with guys being parachuted in to endeavour to protect league positions. There is a lot of discussion around the clubs about a particular player and, if rumours are correct, then the four balls that he has faced in the two games that I have seen him in work out at £300 a ball!! And that I'm not just referring to the Premier league. Is that a real investment in the future? I'm sure that there are those who will disagree with me but going round clubs in the last few weeks I get the distinct impression that there is a lack of enthusaism for promotion from section 1. On a "blank" Bank Holiday I was reading through regulations (as you do!) and I was interested to see that there is a responsibility placed on clubs regarding the behaviour of 'supporters". Whilst this applies to the BKISC, I cannot see any similar constraint in the NCU regs. Does this mean that there is "open season" for any spectator to take issue with an umpire or indeed a player, either during a game or afterwards, without any recourse? I can't see any provision to cover this situation and ask if not, why not? Again someone may correct me. I also note "Billy Dobbin" having another pop at Muckamore as if Ivan's suggestion had ulterior motives.

A lot of interesting comments over the past week or two regarding the re designing of the league setup and the lack of 16/17 year old players. My personal point a view is a change to 10 teams in the Premier League is needed, although the suggestion of a 12 team League with a split at the half way stage also has some merit to it. I would get rid of the Ulster Cup, with a T20 Competition between NCU and NW clubs on a regional basis with the top 4 playing off in a Finals Day at 1 ground. I would also propose that all Premier teams are only allowed 1 Pro and 1 Irish Passport or 2 Irish Passport holders and they must have at least 4 home grown players, with 2 being under the age of 18 in the team. Problem is getting the teams to agree to this!! This might give the younger lads the incentive to play more cricket, if they believe that they have a chance of playing at the top level. Just a few thoughts on a wet afternoon!!