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sorry Hiler but I can't accept your point about the top clubs having facilities that match their status. Electronic scoreboards that only work when "adjusted" by hammering them with a brush, incredibly poor changing facilities and falling standards of pitches are some of my findings going round the grounds. I accept that there are excellent facilities particularly at "cricket only" clubs but I'm afraid they are in a minority. As you say, there are parallels with rugby. I recall the fanfare that greeted the All-Ireland league with high profile coaches from the southern hemisphere, clubs flying to Cork, etc. Then the money ran out especially in the Ulster Branch so we were back to a level playing field with some former senior teams now playing against opponents that wouldn't have taken under notice 15 years ago. The same thing happened in the early days of the cricket "pros" I'm sure you remember the the likes of Roger Harper at Donacloney as one example. The warnings in the present plight of Limavady & North Fermanagh are instances of what happens when the money runs out and let's be honest, that phrase "wait and see what happens if the money stops" is being bandied around NCU cricket when a particular club comes up in conversations! We've all heard it!!

Jareth,
I accept that the regulations were met with and that you cant make up regulations for each game, however for the "showpiece" of the NCU calendar, the Challenge Cup Final, their ought to be more leeway to enable as much cricket to be played, and a 6.11 cut off time in the first week of August makes no sense to me as the light would be good enough for play to continue for at least another hour and surely we want to watch games that are as near to 50 overs per side as the weather permits! (a later cut off time might also encourage more people to take a half day and attend the final.

Paul. You have moved from one forum to the other and your initial rant has now calmed down a little but again I'd have to ask why when you were on the inside and had the opportunity to influence these things did you jump ship after just a few months? It's very easy to pontificate (or rant) from the outside with no real knowledge of what is going on on the inside. You then expect the Chief Executive of Cricket Ireland to come on line and answer your questions when I'm sure he has better things to do.

You query the figures given by Warren Deutrom about cricket participation and then back up your suspicions by noting a loss in the number of clubs playing cricket and the number of senior teams; have you not thought to also consider the increase in the number of youth teams playing cricket these days? Whilst you might not wish to consider plastic bat cricket to be an indicator of cricket participation you obviously haven't considered that in these days of child protection hard ball cricket is no longer acceptable. Also physically a 6 year old would struggle to manage a wooden bat or to bowl or catch a real cricket ball so the plastic bat alternative permits them to participate. Plastic bat cricket is not real cricket but by the same argument 5 aside football is not football.

There were a number of reasons for 8 team leagues, not all of which were generated by Cricket Ireland. The days of old when it was acceptable to take an entire day playing cricket and après cricket have long gone because the Northern Irish social landscape has changed. There have been rumblings for some time that cricket is taking up too much time often manifested in motions to reduce the overs or change start times to get the games over early enough to permit the new view of social interaction or family life. If you do the maths you'll find that if a team goes all the way in each competition within the NCU area then there are in excess of 30 matches with a ten team league and without rearrangements this is quite a burden. Alternatives such as no rearrangements were considered but it was felt that 8 team leagues were the best option and would also promote a best v best to contribute to the improvement in the standard of the game. There are other forces in play beyond the gift of the NCU that may have an adverse effect on this ideal. Also remember that there would be considerable difficulty in fitting in the interpro tournaments that you have been calling for. You can't have it all ways. You were part of this discussion at the time but chose to jump ship because you didn't like the decision of the Board rather than using some diplomacy to try to persuade them of the errors of their ways and you retreated to your previous, cosy option of shouting from the sidelines.

There is a margin of error in an 8 team league just as there is in a 10 team structure but it happens to be less. There are 11 players in a team and each gets at least two chance to influence the game so there are plenty of opportunities to make mistakes and learn from them so I'm not sure I understand the logic behind your argument. I'm sure it isn't a lot of fun being Muckamore or Ballymena at the moment, but I'd need to hear from them to be sure, but why would a ten team league help? On the basis of the way that Section 1 tends to go the winners tend to beat just about all around them and therefore this difference in standard means that Ballymena and Muckamore would have two teams that they could bully. So let's have a 12 team Premier League then... and so on ad infinitum. The 6 team league hypothesis is just petulant nonsense.

In short, I can see where you're trying to go and it's back to the dark ages. There has and always will be movement between clubs. Some players will always strive to higher levels and if it doesn't succeed will return to a lower standard and it has been going on for years. These days there are other influences but that is part and parcel of the development of the game and if it doesn't work as an experiment then these influences will be replaced by something else. Let's just hope we don't reinvent the flat tyre in the process.

'RE Graham Watt

On behalf of TCC.....
Thank you very much for the compliment.

Enjoy the journey. We still are.

Andy

Hi Staffy,
I'm not the spokesperson for elite cricket and can see exactly what you are saying, but in the absence of people who should be answering your questions I'll play Devil's Advocate with some responses.
CI and the Ireland team has taken us to another level in international cricket and if we want to sustain that position we need the structures in place to support the highest level. There are only two structures involved namely Interpro' cricket and club cricket. (Youth cricket is prospering separately).
The Interpros' are up and running and will develop in due course. The argument to streamline premier club cricket was to hone the best talent and the ambitious clubs together in 8-team leagues across the Provinces. Nobody is looking to reduce it because we all want to see if it works. An All-Ireland League is nothing new or even an Ulster League, but it is not on the table and is there any demand?
Please remember the clubs decide what happens not CI or NCU officials and the majority of voting delegates lie outside the premier clubs so we are in control of our own destiny. You are correct in asking the question is this what we want because modern sport is a vastly different place that our amateur status a few years back and we have to decide do we want to move with the times or retain the old systems. Like it or not the world is not a level playing field but don't knock the clubs that are ambitious as everyone of the top clubs has facilities and administrations that match their playing status. That's not by accident. It's not just about money, it's about how you spend that money, how you develop your resources and what ambition your club has. Andy K talks passionately about the rugby parallel and it is a good example. Look at Ulster and Ireland rugby these days and at the same time look at the Ulster clubs who are struggling. Is the fault at the top or at the bottom?
Personally I think we have two different sectors in all sport-amateur and professional, and at some stage we need to structure it accordingly or live with it.

NCU Under 15 league. Div 1.

Dear Clubs / U15 coaches

As league secretary of the u15 league div 1, I have made the decision to allow this league to continue until the end of August as there are no play offs to get ready for as it is straight league.

The last date for playing will be Sunday 31st August. ( I hope it does not get to this stage ).

I hope you agree with me with that with one month left of the Summer, it is more important to have boys playing cricket as much as possible which is my reasoning behind this.

I would point however that some clubs appear more keen and organised to play than others and would ask that those who are not playing as many matches do not hold the league up.

Please also keep sending results to both myself and Wylie McKinty as we are trying to keep the league table on the NCU website as up to date as possible.

regards
Andy McCrea

Clarence

I am just saying that in an 8 team league there is no margin for error. And young players need to be able to make mistakes so they can learn from them.

Take Ballymena and Muckamore as an example. The cricket cannot be much fun at the moment as there is so much pressure on them. If they were in the league below they would be winning most of their games and it would be more competitive and enjoyable.

In a 10 team top flight they would have at least 2 other teams they could beat and it would allow them space to develop.
(Hypothetical Situation)
Lets assume though for a second that the NCU decided that they prefer a 6 team league as those clubs aren't up to the mark.
What then would be Lisburn's position? They would feel they would have to increase their spending to compete at the top level and would have two less home gates at the bar on a Saturday afternoon. Would their season become more enjoyable in a league of 6? I doubt it.

Perhaps they could play more league games (15) by playing each other 3 times. Therefore you would have 6 competitive teams playing lots of good matches. This is what Cricket Ireland want. But what is the knock on effect. If Lisburn got relegated the team promoted would be out of their depth. Lisburn would lose some of their best players to the top five. They would be immediately promoted a year later but weaker than before.

The relegated club will have been roundly thrashed all year. They will lose there best players to the remaining big 5. Some will retire and some will move thinking it will be more enjoyable somewhere else.

Lisburn will be weaker than before and therefore will be a lot less competitive than they were 2 years earlier. We have now created a top flight of 5 with one whipping boy. No problem says Cricket Ireland, each Union only have 5 or 6 competitive teams. we will create an All Ireland League with 5 from NW and NCU and 6 from LCU. We now have 15 competitive teams in Ireland playing really good cricket.......

Can anyone see where I am going with argument? Is this what is happening now? What will happen to the clubs that are left?

Ryan
Nobody is questioning the NCU Development Officers commitment. I am asking the question. If his job remit is to count heads playing Kwik cricket for Cricket Ireland then that is what he must do.

But Warren Deutrom cannot glibly say about a 400% increase in player participation without it being questioned or clarified. Where did you get those figures? What is your definition of a player? What is your definition of participation? What timescale are you talking about?

If the clubs have shown they are prepared to make sacrifices for CI then what are CI doing for the clubs?

Andy i didn't mention the expenditure on spectator seating. And i should have recognised the contribution by umpires designated as muckamore. I did mention the youth camps, charity nights, community events, new ladies team and fifth XI but billy knocked me back. He doesn't want to hear about that sort of thing it seems.

Thanks Staffy.
I'm still not sure what you are saying about 10 v 8. Are you saying more teams in the premier section allows more teams to develop at the higher level?
I agree 100% with the sentiments in your last paragraph as indeed many people should but cricket these days is a completely new world than 20 years ago. Also, on player movement I had a quick look at the transfers and the overwhelming number of transfers are outside the premier league. Some of those in it are cosmetic. We know some players have moved for money but perhaps the problem is not as big as it could be. After all each team can only field 11 players!
Good to hear your views. Anybody out there support 8 teams? After all 2/3 of the union voted for it at the AGM.

Thanks for the kind words Colin we are merely trying to mirror what clubs like templepatrick have done as well as derriaghy

For us that is the model to follow. Hopefully see you next week for that friendly match

In response to Davy McC - I totally understand that 15 odd overs was reduced to 2.2 overs under DL and that the cut off point of actually 6.11 meant that the remainder of the full game was not possible - even though light and conditions were fine. However the regulations were implemented to the letter as both captains acknowledged. The regulations are in fact very sensible. Say for example we got back on at 7.30 the final 15 overs could not have been completed - would you suggest the final 5 overs on Monday. It is in fact a very sensible regulation - although may not always seem that way - but you simply can't make up regulations for each individual game situation

For the benefit of those who don't read the CI forum I repeat my comments about being in the NW last weekend. It was interesting to see a "junior" club - Killyclooney - had an electronic scoreboard that functioned perfectly - no brush in sight!. Clearly the money is being invested in the right direction. And an (Easy)jetsetter late for today's Cup Final!! Really have fears as to where our game is going

I have already posted comments on Paul Stafford's posting on the "other" forum but he is absolutely correct. By the way Nile - in your posting about Muckamore you forgot to mention the number of umpires that Moylena is providing. Just thought I'd mention this. I don't speak for NIACUS but when one looks at the sides who are topping the Premier League vis-a-vis the club affiliation of umpires there appears to be a little disparity.

Home after watching a thrilling game of cricket unfold in the NCU's "showpiece" turn into a farce as with the game delicately poised for reasons unknown to the cricketing fan that had attended despite a poor forecast, was turned into a farce due to the shameful cut off time of 6.15.
Congratulations to CSNI for winning the trophy, but if we are to try and encourage people to attend the game, common sense MUST prevail.