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A great post from Neil Cahill; I too am not convinced that the recommendations will benefit all clubs, particularly those in the new Premier league 2.
I can, however, only imagine the countless hours that have gone into the senior cricket working group and I think that it has things spot on for the top 8 clubs.
In my opinion, there must be further consideration given to the other leagues. Looking at the new Premier league 2, Neil is quite right when saying that the teams will play too little cricket. They are usually out of their cup competition fairly early in the season, perhaps after only one game and therefore, in my opinion, should have eighteen 50 over league matches; not 20 overs in a match 2 scenario. For these clubs, the league matches should be the Holy Grail and a win should be hard to come by.
I can only speak for myself, but for example, ending up with eight 50 over matches and six 20 over matches (given a few cancellations) would be wholly unappealing. I don’t think I’d continue making the sacrifices to play cricket in a structure like this.
Perhaps some people will feel differently, but I, like Neil, feel that discussion is necessary regarding the potential changes ahead.

and well said Ivan McCombe - tho i feel a few just want to be continual moaners and live in the dark ages - in my day........whoops it's now 2011

James. Read Gordon's posting again. He makes no reference to how the club is going, he is making points about the new match regulations. Dundrum 1sts are going well and they are doing a lot of work in local primary schools and fielding under age teams. By the way James who ?
Good posting by Neil Cahill and exactly the sort of debate that the roadshows next week are designed to hear. All those with thoughts on the best way forward should make sure they and their club are represented at a roadshow.
I think the cradle to the grave loyalty that used to exist in many walks of life has also disappeared from cricket. In today's mobile society I think we need to accept that we may lose players AND we may gain players from time to time. I don't think with the opportunity at International level a club can not expect talented players from wanting to prove themselves at the highest level of club cricket.

Re Gordon Dundrum

That's blown that theory out of the water Ivan....!

i am secretary of dundrum 2nds and this year has probably been one of the worst as unfortunately dunmurray had to pull their 2nd team out of the league due to shortage of players and with the new rule enforcing after match 2 situation with match unable to be played due to weather that the game is void it has meant we have lost 4 matches to date this season already.with the 1st match being scrubbed after the 1st weekend in june.also ivan not all teams now provide tea's in 35 over matches which is hard on the school kids who have a match in the morning and then don't get anything to eat until maybe 8pm which has also happened to us this year.i hear a lot of talk about having earlier starting times
but people still work on sat morning's etc or night shift's and with the matches now 35 overs in our league the average match is over by 6pm at the latest including tea's,
and no school's cricket after 3rd year?? one member from our club told me that if that is the case he won't play any league cricket until school's season is over.surely we need to keep these young players on board as they are the future.when you look through the section's you see a lot of matches scrubbed and point's awarded to other teams which would make you wonder why??

There has been a bit of debate on the forum in relation to the recommendations put forward regarding senior cricket. Having looked at a recommendation I am not convinced that they will benefit all clubs. I consider that the recommendations are heavily weighted in favour of the top Premier league clubs. I know that the ideal is to get to a best v best situation but I do not think it should be at the expense of other clubs. Renaming leagues won’t increase quality and players will just migrate to top premier one teams to guarantee cricket every week thus weakening cricket as a whole. I agree that the top clubs play too much cricket and agree that the Premier league should be eight teams but I consider that there needs to be further discussion in relation to the other leagues. In particular, the suggestions in relation to the new Premier league two and Senior League two appear to be flawed as they will play too little cricket as teams are usually out of their cup competition fairly early in the season, perhaps after only one game. The suggestions in relation to rearrangement rules will further decrease the amount of cricket played. If the current proposals went through my club, Cliftonville, would potentially play only nine 50 over matches (assuming we have no more cancellations) in Premier League 2 (if we stay there) in a league season if the weather was similar next year. For what it's worth this is my suggestions in relation to the league restructuring perhpas with also looking at the rearrangement rule:

Premier league- 8 teams
Section 1- 10 teams
Section 2- 9 teams
Section 3- 10 teams

The reason there are less teams in the Premier league and section 2 is that they are likely to go further in the Challenge Cup, Irish Cup and the Junior Cup respectively. Furthermore, a Saturday would potentially be freed in the Premier league to allow a revamped T20 competition. On my estimation this would mean that the vast majority of clubs would play between 18 to 20 matches per season. I would make promotion and relegation one up one down from the Premier league to section 1 and two up two down in all other leagues. The reason I say this is that it appears since two up two down has come in the team that finished second in Section 1 when in the Premier league has always returned straight to section 1 the following year. Keeping two up two down in other leagues would keep the interest in promotion and relegation particularly in nine and ten team leagues. It would also means all teams play home and away and no need to think up a new competition for the bottom section.

These are just my views but hopefully it will spark some debate prior to the meetings which understand that take place in the next couple of weeks.

Ed

Is there a link to the 2011 NCU stats posted anywhere?
I cant find them on any site

Cheers

Paul

DK - thank you for your advice but you seem to miss the point. I accept what you say about the "top" sides but I suggest that YOU take a trip to the NCU site and have a look at the facts for a spoonful of reality.

Simon I don't think we can lay all the problems at "paying " players. I don't think there are that many carpetbaggers about these days. I personally have never had an issue of playing with or against someone receiving money for playing. In fact I found any player receiving money behaved in a professional manner and understood the expectations placed on them. In fact I just regret never being good enough so that someone would want to pay me.
I just would love to see a real best v best scenario and then let's all fight like crazy to get our own clubs into that set up.That in theory should lift the overall standard. That won't be done by buying players alone. It will involve proper cricket Academies , proper fitness work and a serious amount of practicing the basics over and over again. It will also require work on grounds and equipment.The top clubs in both Unions aren't the big payers. They inevitably have the best grounds, the best pitches, the best 2nd XI's , the best teas etc. They understand what's important and other clubs are now realising that buying players alone isn't enough.
I think the best advert for professionals must be two clubs who for many year resisted having them. Namely Ballymena and Dundrum. They must now be in their most healthy state right through their clubs than they probably have ever been.
It certainly should be easier to attract supporters if we have a superior product that ends around tea time. I must admit I would have struggled to put a " spin " on some of the recent games ( not all involving Muckamore) as a "good day out"
I think the demise of the social club has more to do with a more sensible attitude towards the drink driving laws than anything else.
But as Andy Kennedy points out the issues regarding unfilled fixtures at junior level is worrying. This was the main concern of last season's Junior Task Force of which I was delighted to be part of. Without the stats my "gut feeling" would be that the changes haven't as yet reversed the trend of games being scrubbed.
I respect people who offer opinions on these forums but why they don't tell us who they are baffles me. Maybe then we could have proper face to face conversations when we meet at games or dinners or what ever. After all I don't think anyone coming on here wants to see club cricket suffer.

Andy,

Sorry to hear of your condition & decline - I recommend some prozac or as an alternative medicine, a trip to either The Lawn Waringstown, The Green Comber or The Holm Donemana - that ought to cure you...............i'll waive the consultancy fee this time.

RE- Andy and Ivan

Too much money has knocked the heart out of it.

Money removes the Heart and the Soul. It kills the Commaradarie and the Friendships, it destroys the Loyalty and the Integrity, it is the "virus in the game"
It turns once great social "Clubs" into places of little desire

I like many of my friends have spent far too many summers playing with these guys - You stand at the bar, buy them a drink,(seldom reciprocated)you even think they're your mate...!
Only to find they buggar off next year for a better offer.

I and many of my mates can now seldom be bothered with them...
When asked to attend a fundraiser for them, I'm afraid we now make our polite excuses...
It's easy now to find something else to do on a Saturday...!

I do find myself exhaling in despair when people try and defend all these overseas (and local) "carpetbaggers" milking the local game like an over laden "dairy cash cow

Ivan, after all the hard work trying to attract spectators, it sounds to me like you have admitted defeat, or maybe you have just hit the nail on the head...?

sorry to add a negative note here but I had written earlier postings about the decline of cricket in the NCU. I regret to note that this decline has markedly declined since the start of the season and is evidenced by the number of sides failing to fulfil fixtures and the number of players who readily admit to being well past their sell-by dates turning out to keep teams going. As I said on another forum I'm too old & grumpy to offer solutions but I do find the present situation rather depressing.

Matthew, I do not know who you are or what club you are associated with but I can assure you that the senior cricket working group does consist of a number of active cricketers and also those actively involved in the running of senior cricket teams (ie First XI cricket at all levels).
A rough count of the committee makeup has 11 active players and 4 active (but non-playing) members involved senior cricket.
It’s also worth re-emphasising (as I have done before) that a number of other players/administrators at senior clubs were asked to join the group but declined for various reasons. Also worth noting is that in the numbers mentioned above, none to my knowledge are involved in any other NCU committees.
This group also includes the Chairman and Vice-Chairman of the Development Directorate and two other members of that committee.
The last thing to point out is that this group only makes recommendations – in the democracy that is the NCU, the clubs have the last say on what changes (if any) are made to the structures within the NCU at the annual general meeting in October.
If Matthew (or anyone else) would like the names of those involved then drop me an email.

is the task force full of people who dont play anymore? what gives them the right to make descions on the future if they dont play surely there has to be people on it who are still playing and have played for a while.

Good points Ivan and hopefully the Task Force is dealing with them as they have a good opportunity for planning for the future. The Ulster League has good and bad points and the current Ulster Cup competition is a useful barometer but has it brought out the crowds and has the cricket been of a higher standard? Everything is changing and clubs have different priorities and challenges. Some matches may seem pointless to neutrals but there's always something at stake with promotion and relegation. Don't throw away 125 years of history on a wing and a prayer. An Ulster League has to be an absolute guarantee of better cricket, bigger crowds and more sponsorship otherwise it will do more harm than good. And remember the majority of cricketers in both unions play junior and minor cricket and it appears don't show much interest in the game at the higher level.