Forum

So CI have started their winter shopping with what looks to be a top class pro. With a few more signings reported could they buy the Premier League again?

With CI strengthening and Ervine back at Lisburn will Muckamore be favourites for the drop even with a decent pro

I don't see how Jim concludes that I am trying to turn this into a football forum. I know little about soccer but I am aware of the situation in that other sports have found themselves following the embracing of the "professional game". Clarence makes reference to club treasurers and there have been some spectacular falls from grace, especially in the North West. The N.C.U. is not immune and the gap between the top 4 or 5 and the rest continues to widen and mirrors what has happened in rugby. Dungannon, once a major force in Irish rugby, now struggle to field a 3rd XV, Malone is a shadow of the club that used to put out 14 or 15 sides. Little appears to be done at Ravenhill to address this issue on foot of the success of the "provincial" side, Club Ulster, and I fear that the benefits of the success of the Cricket Ireland will not cascade down the "unions". But a football forum? Where did you pull that one from Jim?

andy, thought I would bite this time. being as you are changing this into a football forum - maybe your team should start singing "We're not in Brazil, 'cos we're Norn Irn" Spend more time worrying about your own country and less about others. See you in Rio NOT!

You guys should take a look at the Clubmark scheme which addresses some of the issues you raise. A few clubs throughout the NCU have received accreditation in this.

In relation to criteria for qualification for entry to the premier league - the current teams of north down, waringstown, inst, csni, ciyms, ballymena and Lisburn all have at least 4 senior adult sides, field junior sides at nearly all age groups and generally have good playing facilities. They all have professionals and qualified coaches. Newcomers muckamore also tick all the boxes. Therefore, at present, is the PL not represented by the strongest clubs ?

correct me if I'm wrong but does Cricket Scotland not have some sort of system of certification where the "whole club" structure is examined before promotion is granted? Irish rugby has a chartermark system where, again the whole club system is "audited". While Randalstown's application was being processed, one of the U17s was asked about the club's positive attitude to discipline and replied "aye, the coaches bate it into us all the time"! Out of the mouths of babes!! Not sure that the Irish League is a good example Ivan when I read about the recent fiasco over the Co. Antrim Shield! Have read Liam Beckett in today's Newsletter and still don't understand what is going on.

Wayne, interesting article if a bit idealistic as you say. The IFA have a system whereby to get promoted into the Premiership you must have a " licence from the governing body " . So the winners of the Chsmpionship are not automatically promoted. That obviously lets clubs play flat out to win the league without having the poisoned chalice of promotion into a league where your quality of player, finances, infrastructure isn't at the level needed to play at the top level.
Now this system doesn't restrict ambitious clubs like Ballinamallard United joining the elite clubs.
We don't want a closed shop Premier League but it's inevitable that if you are playing for a club with no ambition to play there that you will join a Premier League club if you think you are good enough. I think we will see a situation whereby the 2nds of the Premier League clubs will be on a par with most of the teams in Senior League One. In fact if the pros weren't playing in Section One we mightn't be far away from that right now.
I don't see how that is a bad thing. For a club to move up like Ballinamallard Utd did you need the quality of players matched by an ambitious, visionary committee and back room staff.

A couple of interesting points about 8 team/10 team leagues and player payments/movements. Clarence i am going to latch onto your comment "Club Treasurers in the NCU and North-West start their season preparations by working out how much money they need to pay their pros. It's madness but if you have ambition and want to compete at the highest level how do you change it?"

I think this is the key point. So many clubs/unions focus on what happens next season....not where do want to be in 5 years or beyond and then how do we get there. It is all too short term and short term decisions lead to problems in the medium term.

If the aim is to look at cricket and improve the quality of grounds, groundsmen, equipment, coaching, youth numbers, clubs having inter pro representatives, unions having ireland players and Ireland ultimately move further up the world rankings and then test status then all of this needs financial and operational planning and a medium term strategy that links clubs, unions and cricket ireland.

perhaps assistance top down...eg cricket ireland/unions allocate development funding to clubs that develop/invest in equipment/have better grade of grounds to promote investment and development. If you continually invest and develop you will find clubs get better, players stay and whether it be 8 or 10 team leagues the clubs with the most robust infrastructure will ultimately play in the top leagues (albeit some will still get there due to ££).

All a bit idealogical i know but if clubs were ranked on not just league standings and had some incentive to improve the youth system/ground quality or even number of umpires into the system then it could help cricket throughout ireland

just had a most enjoyable 4 days watching and reading about the Ashes 1st Test. Don't you just love the English media. Thursday morning - "Australia unable to top 300 on a flat perfect pitch, etc., etc." England just manage to top 300 in 2 innings!! Flossie is asking why I have had a permanent smile since Thursday! Bring on the world - aye right! But then again Engerland won the World Cup in 1966!!

Billy can you blame the 8-team league for all this? We've only had it for one season and while I agree with many of your observations I can't accept they have been caused by the 8-team league. The 8-team league was a close call at the AGM but it needed to be tested and if it isn't working then the decision can be reversed. There are positives and negatives. However, I think the problems relating to the quality of teams, player movement and ambition all relate to money. Or the lack of it. National and the top level of club cricket is now professional and many clubs can't or won't get on the bandwagon. Look at what happened at Limavady when the money dried up. Club Treasurers in the NCU and North-West start their season preparations by working out how much money they need to pay their pros. It's madness but if you have ambition and want to compete at the highest level how do you change it? Even the great amateur clubs of old Waringstown and Donemana were forced to change to compete. Football and rugby are in the same boat-look at some of Andy's comments on rugby and see the comparisons with cricket.
Apart from all that I hope you are keeping well.

8/10 PREMIER LEAGUE.
My final comment on this topic.
The 8 team Premier League has served the ICC very well and is a major disservice to all clubs outside the Premier League.
When we had a 10 team league we had 10 premier league sides and 6/7 ambitious clubs in League 1 capable of playing and competing in the top league because they a pro, some very good players and some talented youth players coming through.
The 8 team league has produced 6/7 Premier league clubs and 3/4 yo-yo clubs.
The rest bereft of their best players and talented young players have not surprisingly lost their drive and ambition to be a Premier League team.
Come back in 10 years and the same6/7 clubs will make up the Premier League,
League 1 and 2 will be social cricket and we probably will not have a League3!

Well said John.
Time to get you into the NCU ranks now that you have more free time!

Re league structure etc.

If Neil's comments are accurate what is the point of a 10 team league if the teams in section 1 don't want to be promoted. Because of the money floating around the premier league I do believe the gap has widened and therefore do understand that it is very difficult to get promoted and stay up as has been shown in recent seasons - it is not fun to struggle each week. I don't believe however that the standard is better and do feel that every team relies too heavily on a small number of players. The lcu teams do seem to have better strength in depth throughout their top league. Performances across the big teams were in general below par last year with few stand out players - hopefully just a bad year.
As for the shared league - I feel the league should be won on the pitch so I would prefer a play-off.
And while I am on my soapbox I do feel there is too much money about. As a young cricketer you want a professional at your club who can put in outstanding performances and inspire you to a better playing level - there have been some brilliant pros in the last 20 years that have done exactly this and helped bring through some quality Irish players. Where you are paying players beyond ths surely the key criteria must be their ability and experience as a coach - not sure this is always the case which ultimately leads to money being poorly invested.
Time to step down off soapbox now

Right, just to get back to more sensible matters and the Bothwell story, we were playing at Laurelvale one afternoon when either Cyril or Eddie Vennard (can't remember which one, but let's say Cyril) got hit on the head while batting and went down. Needless to say, there was a bit of concern and a group gathered round Cyril. Next thing Bothwell appeared from the scorebox to check on his son's well being. "Get a glass of water", Bothwell shouted. Sure enough, out came a glass and was handed to Bothwell. Cyril, who was on the ground, propped himself up and stretched out his hand to take a drink. Not so fast. Bothwell took a huge gulp from the glass, filled his mouth with water and then proceeded to spit it all over Cyril! Needless to say, mayhem and merriment ensued as Cyril tried to get to Bothwell, but we managed to keep them apart. I've no idea who won the match or what happened thereafter, not least because most of us were in fits of laughter! Laurelvale was a great place to play in those days. Many, many fond memories, some of which might follow. I can still hear the formidable war cry of the Vale tea ladies - "More scallions Gerald?". And I couldn't not mention another meeting with Cyril. Arriving at Holywood for a home match against them, I turned the corner of the changing rooms only to find myself staring down the barrel of a gun - literally! Needless to say, holding it was none other than Cyril who greeted me with a rather sinister "What about ye Burrowes?" I'm not sure how my underpants reacted, but it was interesting preparation for the match! Still, I suppose that Cyril was a pretty sensible chap...........wasn't he? Answers on a poststcard....

It's a case of the Premier League clubs getting stronger and the majority of the rest of the NCU getting weaker. I would be in favour of a 10 team league, just looking at the free Saturdays Premier League clubs had last season in what is already a only a 5 month season.

The worrying thing speaking to a lot of guys from Section 1 clubs is that bar Downpatrick and ourselves last season no other team wanted to get promoted. This is very worrying and something that needs addressed, but as you say Clarence the AGM is the place to air each view and proposal. The NCU also made an effort to go to each club and get opinions and thoughts but it was poorly attended by a lot of clubs.

Giller