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Paul - in answer to your question 'Will common sense prevail?'
Never on THIS forum!

The ncu do need to formally advise 2 things:

1 - the registration process of an amateur non paid pro. ie what documentation will be required to back this up. Surely if the ncu allow said players into ncu and home office rules are broken then the ncu will be held accountable for allowing registration in the first place

2 - for clubs who break the rules what action will the ncu take. ie Points deductions, fines, automatic relegation.

I for one would like to think that section 1 clubs will pull together on this, otherwise there could be a few tasty matches, or potentially clubs refusing to play!

Will common sense prevail?

Seems from my reading of the Home office guidelines it's a case of 'once a professional, always a professional'! Even if playing as 'an amateur'.

Just wondering if it might be difficult to convince the authorities that Jimmy who has been coming here for years as a pro is suddenly coming to do unpaid charity work.
To quote the relevant section of the guidelines:-

An “Amateur” is a person who engages in a sport or creative activity solely for personal enjoyment and who is not seeking to derive a living from the activity. This also includes a person playing or coaching in a charity game.

A “Professional Sportsperson”, is someone, whether paid or unpaid, who :

is providing services as a sportsperson, playing or coaching in any capacity, at a professional or semi-professional level of sport; or
being a person who currently derives, who has in the past derived or seeks in the future to derive, a living from playing or coaching, is providing services as a sportsperson or coach at any level of sport, unless they are doing so as an “Amateur”.

Is there any restriction on a premier league registered pro (I'm not sure what to call them) coaching at a section 1 or 2 club? His premier league club would of course be responsible for the paperwork, visa and payment involved as usual.
These pros are unable to play matches in lower leagues and this is fair enough, the clubs are unable to employ these pros as players/coaches and that's fair enough too (as far as the ncu regs go).
Now the situation is as I understand it there are 35 snr clubs and only 8 pro 'coaches' (I don't know how many pros actually coach) are allowed, and only in the premier league.
The solution lies within the NCU. Quoting home office advice isn't creating a solution, it's passing the buck and causing a problem, it's creating a discriminatory environment, and it's almost the very same glass ceiling that CI has worked so hard to overcome in the international arena.

If we are to have only 8 of these pros in the union then they must be obliged to coach in the lower leagues, especially section 1. This would probably save sec1 club a bundle of money, and at the same time an additional premium to the subs of sec1 clubs could be directed to take some pressure off the fees paid to each pro by their premier clubs. If an overseas pro had to coach for an additional 4 hours a week elsewhere would this cause a problem for a premier league club?
This 'on loan' coaching only pro, would not deprive a club from using a young overseas player under the regs that were outlined by Roger.
This whole overseas home office pro cricketer debacle is an opportunity to create a fantastic cricket development environment to supplement to the great work that our development officers already do. It's unfortunate that this has become a problem when it should be a win win situation.

Nice to get some clarification from Roger and the NCU regarding pro's in section 1. For me it seems the best opportunity for all the clubs to agree on no pro's in the league. it seems that not all agree and its each to their own but I would think any that do come will be getting more than accommodation and flights paid for so ultimately breaking the law.

Hilarious to listen to the England rugby coach complaining abiut the Italian tactical use of the Laws and the vaunted English forwards bemused by their lack of knowledge of the Laws!! This surely wouldn't happen in cricket, would it??!!

Re: Paul

While some of the statements you make are true, others are inaccurate and show a lack of understanding of what has happened. Perhaps I can take this opportunity to clarify the situation

There is no doubt that the Home Office will taking a much stricter line this year, and former first class players or those who have received remuneration in the past may have difficulty obtaining a Standard Visitor Visa this year. Clubs should also be aware that if they manage do to get players into the UK via SVV's, they are entitled to flights, accommodation, and living expenses only, and they may not be paid a salary for playing, or coach. This has always been the case but the Home Office have made it clear that where they have largely turned a blind eye in the past, they intend to enforce the regulations this year. There is no doubt that clubs would be foolish to ignore this as there could be a heavy fine for any club caught by the Home Office infringing the terms of their visa. SVV's were never really intended as a route to bring professional players into the country but as a way for overseas amateurs to gain experience and improve their game by playing in the UK (just as some of our young players do in other countries during our winter), and can still be used as such.

However, better news is that Standard Visitor Visas are not the only entry route for player/coaches for clubs below the Premier League. Anyone who holds a British, EU, or Irish passport, or holds a UK Ancestry visa (parent or grandparent born in UK), can subject to the Union's requirements for a Level 2 coaching certificate, be paid for playing and coaching without restriction.
Another method of entry, the Youth Mobility Visa allows amateur players under 30 from Australia/NZ to play and coach here, and although they can't be paid for doing so, they are entitled to work in the UK for up to 2 years (many employed as barmen etc)

I hope this clarifies things a bit, and if any club requires further information or advice they are always welcome to get in touch and I will try my best to assist.
Telephone 07980 514186 of email rbellccc@aol.com

Colin,

You must be out of the loop. There has been a change in VISA regulations.

Only visas a player can travel in on are a professional sports visa. Which state you need to have played first class cricket in the last two years.

Were as NCU regs don't allow a first class pro in section 1... So there is no choice!

You can risk bringing a pro in on a sports traveller visa. Bound to raise an eyebrow when customs ask an Indian with an empty bank account how he is funding his 4 month stay in NI. Add to this, the fact the visa clearly states they cannot coach. Hence my 'tip off' likelihood.

These regulations have came in this winter, so the previous decades you refer to are irrelevant.

Have heard some NCU stalwarts talking off the record about how this now makes a legal risk for section 1 clubs to bring in a pro.

Seems to be common sense from the 7 clubs, not what you are suggesting anyway!

paul

why would a club agree not to bring an overseas player in if they are within the home office regulations and also the ncu regs. the home office rules have been about for years I'm led to believe. maybe the clubs that have agreed to ban pros this year have something to hide

Ed,

Would seem the Common Sense approach. Otherwise you be looking at three chairmen in jail and £20k fines when there are a few 'random tip offs' given to the border forces.

Seems extreme! But can guarantee if only 3 clubs proceed with a pro is that it will happen.

NCU need to show leadership and common sense on the issue. Not right to risk it, when no club is going to be disadvantaged by stopping pros playing in section 1.

Whereas, 7 clubs would be disadvantaged. Makes no sense, and it will lead to 'tip offs'.

This isn't a threat by any means, but why wouldn't clubs do that? They are being disadvantaged, and 3 clubs would be breaking the law of the country.

From what I'm led to believe 7 of the 10 section 1 clubs have agreed to proceed with no pros this season.

Armagh, Donaghcloney and Lurgan are resisting this.

I hope the NCU respects the 2 thirds majority and prevents a section 1 club from having pros for this coming season.

I appreciate the benefits they can have off the field. But on the field you will see a complete flip in the league. And those teams heavily reliant on their pro the last decade will be highlighted.

There must be cumalativily hundreds of thousands of debt between section 1 and 2 clubs. Time for common sense! Trust your youth and your home grown players.

To save all the hassle of pros why not ban them from playing altogether save money and we would find out how good teams really are without the hired gun or in some cases all the hired guns

Hear! Hear! Paul in Bangor

Does this basically suggests then that any section 1 club bringing in an overseas will be breaking the law?

What is the NCU stance on the matter?

Re: VISA implications for professionals

Paul,

Section 1 clubs - and, maybe, some Premier League clubs - may find themselves between a rock and a hard place.

The ECB and the Home Office now define a professional as anyone who currently derives, has in the past derived, or will in the future derive any sort of living from cricket, whether coaching or playing. This likely includes - although the wording is ambiguous - anyone who has ever played U19 representative cricket in a foreign country.

Such 'professionals' can only be brought into the country under a Tier 5 Creative & Sporting VISA. The problem is that the only cricketers eligible for such a VISA are current first-class cricketers, who are ineligible to play in Section One.

I hope that helps, but I fear that it won't,

Michael