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Andy Kennedy
Andy With respect, my original posting was in response to comments from Frank Brannigan referring to "master race" and ncu " blazer brigade".
Re andy - are you part of the clan?
to Mr. Crothers. The comments about Instonians only began after your posting! My original posting was purely about the decision of the Emergency Committee. And I suppose it has taken the spotlight off CIYMS for a while! And speaking of CI - I was really impressed by John Matchett on the NCU U15 side. Looks to be the real deal both batting & bowling - and a nice guy into the bargain. Definitely one for the future.
If a club have invested in the progress of their young players so that they are good enough to represent Ireland on an international stage, why then should that club be penalised?
I can understand that the ruling was changed for the reasons it was changed, but I am long enough in the game to remember when Muckamore were one of the best youth sides in the country (alongside Lisburn), and I can imagine how these clubs would have felt if they had been told to play minus their best players as they were representing us all.
The sub-committee are all elected at the AGM, if you feel strongly enough about it, then actions speak louder than words.
I think that both clubs in this debate about the date of the Challenge Cup semi final are taking unnecessary stick. It's the disregarding of a ruling agreed at an AGM by a committee who meets in Emergencies . Who decides what's an Emergency? Are clubs aware of how to convene this committee? Why does this committee have no right of appeal? .
Did Waringstown not think of calling for the Emergency Committee asking for a ruling ( that's not in the rules) that said if a ground isn't playable on the reserve date but an alternative ground is then that the match be played on that alternative ground. Maybe if Moylena isnt playable on Sunday morning of the 15th they could convene and make such a decision.
Maybe the fact that for the past few years most of the proposals put forward at the NCU AGM's have come from the Union needs to be changed and clubs start taking a lot more interest on issues that are important.
Relationships between Muckamore and Instonians have always been very competitive on the field and very friendly off the field and I am sure next Sunday will be no different.
Ivan, Roger has clarified the situation regarding the old rule which related to league fixtures only, it seems the Challenge Cup has always been dealt with on a 'case by case' basis.
IPS
Sub-Ed
Well said sub-ed!! What's the point in the Clubs voting to get rid of a rule if the NCU can simply form a subcommittee and in essence reintroduce it.
Re. Mr Crother's comments, the less said the better. In a one off CUP match anything can happen, that's the whole point of the Cup in my opinion.
Dear Sub-Ed, What clubs voted for was the AUTOMATIC right of clubs to postpone any league match due to international call-ups. Since then the NCU has consistantly agreed to any request from a club which 1.Is a Challege Cup match 2.Involves 2 or more players.
Up to now we have had absolutely no problems with this. In my opinion it is only right that a club should not be disadvantaged when a player has been given the honour of selection for his country, an honour both for club and Union. Surely all fair minded people would agree? Most NEUTRAL cricket supporters I have spoken to over the last day or two at the Ireland match do.
End of my comments on this matter!
Roger I agree entirely that clubs should not be disadvantaged and can assure you that my own club voted against the removal of the old ruling and would be in favour of a new one.
But I personally think it should be there in the rules in black and white, or at least a published policy agreed to by the clubs (and I’m thinking Premier League clubs), and not at the discretion of a handful of people to determine their own criteria.
IPS
Sub-Ed
re:my "outrageous posting"
Frank/Andy,
What I was saying was that at this stage of the Comp with 1 semi to be played, I feel Inst VS North Down would be a better game. To conclude that I only want the Top 4 Teams in the Cup is a ludicrous assumption!!
North Down have scored over 300 or above twice this season against better sides than Muckamore.
The debate may rage on but the reality is that the decision has been made.
Whoever wins the semi will face a massive task to beat North Down(favourites in my eyes) at the Green.
Hopefully Instonians can do their talking on the pitch to silence the mumblings off it.
Can someone please tell me what rule was broken here? The point is this subject is not mentioned in the rules, so each request is dealt with on its merits. The Union has always been sympathetic to clubs who have a Challenge Cup match scheduled when two or more players are away representing their country. There are a number of precedents for this in recent years, some of which are mentioned in an earlier post by Wylie. I don't remember us having this sort of controversy on those previous occasions. Let's now hope that the weather improves and that the semi final can be settled on the field next Sunday.
Roger
There is of course no rule in place (to postpone a game due to representative selection), the clubs voted it out at an NCU AGM around the turn of the Millennium.
And that is the crux of the matter - most club delegates I'm sure thought when they removed that rule democratically that they had removed the ability to postpone games due to representative selection, and would not expect to see the NCU introduce its own take on the subject in subsequent years.
IPS
Sub-Ed
I have read the debates re cup semi with interest. First and foremost the Senior Cup is special and will always be special. Some of my best memories of cricket are cup games over years. Some great moments of joy at Woodvale and North/quins/CSN and some moments of despair when losing. That is when you learn about yourself, your teammates and the opposition and is the joy of cricket. There is no better feeling than winning as an underdog and the cup should be played on the pitch, best fit xi vs best fit xi. Bowl outs are a cop out if you can play a game anywhere and that is a spirit of cricket comment.
All that said, rules are rules. look at the rules applied over the last 10 years or so.
North Down lost a league due to peter connellgate. CSN lost a league as they got a point deducted for being 1 minute over time. There were reasons for both but very quickly the rules were pointed at based on what was in the book and north down and csn suffered.
The rules are voted on by the clubs, upheld by the NCU and that should be done consistently and transparently. if the rules are not right, change them at next agm. this selective amendment is nonsense and i can see why it leads to so much frustration.
not sure where the "negativity from Moylena" comes from - along with John Stevenson, my postings were directed at the Emergency Committee not Instonians.
instead of bowl outs why cant we have a super over?
We're all assuming that both games in this debate will go ahead on that date....has any1 seen the weather that has prevented us from playing any normal cricket this past while. Probably best that no1 mentions the old "bowl-out" at this stage!
sorry just read Steven's posting - probably a fair shout on the arrogance!!!!
re Mr Brannigan
as I stated, which I will do again the rules are the rules and I feel we should be playing on Sunday - I don't believe criticism can be leveled at our club for asking the question to the NCU - the critism should be leveled at the NCU for saying yes to the postponement.
Having read these forums over recent years, when an incident like this occurs there is such venom directed at the club involved, which is completely irrational - Inst or any other individual club do not set or apply the rules.
My point in relation to international call ups was that if at the start of the season the NCU knows when Ireland/Ireland A fixtures are on their premier tournament should look to avoid clashes with these dates so as not to devalue the tournament. Similarly bowl outs should be avoided and the current rules where we only have two attempts does not seem fair considering most senior league teams are playing less cricket with the reduction in the size of the leagues - surely that has created more opportunity to play re-arrangements. Unavailability due to injuries/holidays is a completely separate matter and not somtheing that the NCU need consider.
As for the fixture itself - lets hope it gets played. The negativity coming from Moylena would suggest their chance has gone with this ruling - this is far from the case!
