Forum

Hi There
Any clubs looking for overseas for coming season we have some outstanding players from test cricketers/ intl and top class first class cricketers please feel free to email us info@1player.co.uk

Mark

Bumper I think you are being very generous including Muckamore in that list. We shared the top division title once - in 1970 and we have won the Senior Cup once - in 1963 so those successes are in the very distant past. Many of the others you list have had top flight success within the last 20 seasons.

That said come the start of 2016 we will be having a real go at getting back in to the top division and I think that ambition should be encouraged.

The fact you have highlighted eight traditionally strong cricket clubs that are outside the top division shows that NCU cricket in general is in good health and they will play good club cricket as described by Neil Fullerton at the start of this debate.

Other clubs like Armagh, Laurelvale, Academy, Templepatrick, Saintfield, Donacloney, Cregagh, Dundrum and Ards are all working hard at promoting the game and in a few years not only will NCU have a strong Premier League but will have strong Senior Leagues below that with each club having many Saturday teams , ladies teams and youth teams at all ages.

In the not too distant past these clubs were powerhouses in the top division of the NCU.

I ask the question will they ever win or challenge in the 'closed shop'
that is the Premier league?

Oh yes, what clubs- Woodvale, Ballymena, Bangor, Downpatrick, Lurgan, Cliftonville, Holywood and dare I include Muckamore.

It's good to see debate on this subject and others. I really don't see what the issue is. Surely every club decides at what level they want to compete , what level of fundraising they want to do , what sponsorship they can attract .
As Clarence says " the old days are no more". We now have cricket coverage in local papers in the winter, we have another T20 World Cup to look forward to and remember with the possible exception of Tim Murtagh everyone else in that squad will have started as a youngster at a club in Ireland and developed to play on the world stage.
I remember seeing a 15 year old William Porterfield play in a Senior Cup final for Donemana and thinking " this wee lad will be a good player " but never did I think I would be watching him on Sky TV score a century at the ODI World Cup .
And remember he stated at Killymallaght I think it was and I remember playing against a 15 year old Andrew White when he was at Ards. Gary Wilson came to Moylena with Woodvale 2nds as a 14 year old and hit Philip Dewes who was no mug into the river and Philip still talks about knowing that day he was watching someone special.
So this is " our Ireland team ". When I see youngsters running about at Moylena I wonder " will one of these guys play Test cricket?".
Let's get as many NCU players in that first Test team as we can.
That's how the game has moved on and our best young batters and bowlers will only get better playing with and against quality pros. And don't worry about them not getting a chance - if they are good enough they will force there way through .
A successful Ireland team will raise the standards at every level.
"Utopia" for me would be seeing a player on that team sheet with Muckamore in brackets after their name.

Clarence,

I totally agree as the NCU has to progress in the line with other unions so in this semi professional era clubs have to move with times ans Waringstown are a fantastic example of an excellent club structure where they have avoided spending a lot of money to reach success, simlarly those who can and do spend money fair play to them if thats the route to success. I dont think any section 1 club would turn down being promoted to the Premier League but if you had spoken to the majority of clubs mid way through the last few seasons the common response would have been we dont want to go up. We certainly have been guilty of those thoughts in saying that im sure every club tries to win every game. Next season we will have the mindset of lets try and see if we can win the league and go up and give it a go, we might do it or we might not come close. We wont know though without giving it a real good push. Derriaghy are a fine example of a close knit bunch of boys and it will be very interesting if their spirit and togetherness wins them a few games in the Premier League, i think it might just.

Interesting point Taito. No promoted club has ever declined going up to the Premier League but perhaps it may happen in the future? It would be interesting to hear the views of other Section 1 clubs, although we have to commend the top clubs for raising the benchmark to a higher level to compete with the top clubs in other unions. To do otherwise would set us back years and reduce NCU cricket to dinosaur status. Waringstown's success in the Irish Senior Cup this year was great for NCU cricket and widely praised as they championed the union's cause. We have to accept some clubs are driven by different motives, but there is a place for everyone within the NCU structure. The challenge is to understand and manage diversity-not an easy task in Northern Ireland culture!

Ivan,

I agree with a lot you have said as in fair play to the Premier Legaue clubs who can afford to bring in top overseas and irish qualified players. No doubt playing with and against the best improves you as a player, i always loved playing against the best players. The issue i have is that Section 1 clubs did or do have ambition to play in the Premier League but as it gets more and more proffesional and more and more about spending money this has become unachievable to compete in that league for many clubs. We will be pushing as hard as we can to get promoted next season and truly believe we can do it but the Premier leageu carrot dangling isnt that appealing for Section 1 clubs.

Ivan - as much as I want Ireland to win when they play, the bottom harsh line is I don't really care that much.

My loyalties solely lie with my club - not with massaging the egos of the select few

You desperately need to get out of your Muckamore bubble of utopia - either that or someone should burst it for you

Ivan, if your last sentence is correct perhaps we should start by scrapping the Interprovincials and concentrate on the Premier League as a stepping stone to the national squad! They are a jolly for Leinster because of the Ireland player contracts and the current structure is a waste of time and money.
Neil, I understand your philosophy but most sports are semi or fully professional these days. I'm also sure there's a brown envelope or two in the NI Amateur League which supposedly caters for club football outside the professional game. Unfortunately the 'good old days' have disappeared and we live and play in a different era. I only know the finances of one Premier League club and they registered a trading profit at their AGM two weeks ago for the first time in years. They also did quite well on the pitch so there is a business model that works. Also, I think Waringstown has a genuine club culture, and is one of the lighter spenders. However, at the end of the day every club will do what they think is best for them and that's their prerogative. Good luck to you guys next season.

Michael - I'm not sure what you are reading . Neil and I are on the same page . I believe clubs make decisions based on their own ambitions . Ballymena want to play good club cricket probably in Section One and that's to be applauded.
However it shouldn't stop clubs like CIYMS , Waringstown etc wanting to play a higher standard and if that means bringing top drawer pros I think that's to be equally applauded.
Maybe we need to introduce a licencing system like you have in Football in Northern Ireland . A club can play and win the Champiobship but opt not to play in the Premier league. Ambitious clubs like Ballinamalard emerge and say " we want to play with the big boys ".
We need a strong Premier cricket league to help us develop international players in the NCU area.

Well said Neil fullerton - 100% right

Ivan - oh dear, I don't even know where to start :(

Re Neil Fullerton

You quote 'Not against players who are getting a house, a car and anywhere between 20 and 45 grand to lie about and scratch their rear ends all week and then win cricket matches' - what are you smoking?

All I'm saying is the majority of Ballymena's senior squad want to play against other players at other clubs like themselves - who work five days a week, practice a couple of times, play a match on a Saturday and have a drink in the bar afterwards.

Not against players who are getting a house, a car and anywhere between 20 and 45 grand to lie about and scratch their rear ends all week and then win cricket matches.

We are simply back to the hired gun scenario.
‘Ours is better than yours’ type of thing.
And, as a club, we are glad to have no part of it.
End of.

Neil . Good old fashioned CLUB cricket I think is alive and well in the NCU. Ballymena are a great example. Four Saturday teams and a strong youth set up linked to local schools. There are many other examples of clubs working hard at coaching kids , spending money on grounds etc. There was a great post on here the other week about Ards ambitious plans and Jeff Maguire at Dundrum recently posted about the work on an off the field they are doing.

However the cricket landscape has changed. Ireland in 2016 will play South Africa, Australia, Sri Lanka and Pakistan. Roll back 10 to 15 years to see who the opponents were.
To keep up with this the infrastructure of club cricket needed to change and that meant adding a semi professional Inter Pro set up and now we need a proper Premier League where the best players both local and overseas play.
The current system allows any club to make there way into that Elite group and Ballymena played there for many season and I'm sure people like Michael Glass enjoyed testing himself against the best batsmen and the likes of Janes and David Kennedy enjoyed proving they could score runs against the best bowlers.
As I see it Ireland will get stronger , the Inter Pro series will get stronger and the Premier League will get stronger and below that there will be stronger, healthier old fashioned CLUB cricket with more people playing , more coaches , better facilities .
I think clubs then have a choice and that's for their players, officials , spectators and sponsors to decide - do we want to play good competitive CLUB cricket or do we want to play in the PREMIER league.
Those clubs with no ambitions to play in the PREMIER league and the funding and commitment that entails should then encourage any "gems" they discover to go and play at a PREMIER club and test themselves against the best and then be proud of their achievements and hope they go on to play against South Africa or Australia and if it doesn't work out come back at worst a better player.
I think cricket is healthy but it does need us all to realign our thinking to the realities of where we are now compared to 10 to 15 years ago.

It is great to see so many quality pros being signed for next season as well as the likes of Sorenson now coming to play in the NCU. Surely this can only help the standard of young cricketers getting to play with and against players of this quality.

You only have to turn on the TV to watch Van Der Dussen who played recently in NI with CIYMS to see the standard of these pros.

Should make for a competitive 2016.