Forum

Neil i lke your Elite All Ireland League idea. Certainly worth considering. And similarly to the rugby version, the irish cricket union could issue grants to clubs participating to assist with expenditure.
Do away with the interpro series.
The top end of the rugby set up works well in that the top AIL leagues effectively feed the Ulster Rugby side.

We can not wait to welcome these big guns at Queensway.. Bigger they are harder they fall!! We will be in the clubhouse having a beer win, lose or draw!!

I wish you guys had been at the NCU AGM. This is the sort of discussion that has been missing for several years although I'm told it happens at the roadshows. Pros or no Pros, 8, 10 or 12 team leagues, all-Ireland league, player movement et al. There's plenty of merit in the arguments on both sides of the fence- the Pros have been good and bad for club cricket, the merit of an 8-team Premier League is unproven and as for an All-Ireland league there is merit, but no appetite amongst the top clubs. Time and expense are big negatives.
Let's hear more opinions down the leagues as they are just as important in these discussions as the big clubs. And let's hear some comments from the players as they are directly involved.

Re Neil
Clearly you are a pessimist and not someone looking to further themselves by playing against the best. Do you not think young lads will learn from playing against decent pros and challenge themselves more to either taking their wicket, not get out to them or score runs off them?
As for your comments about Kemp - as Ivan has said he's 38 years old, and probably not as 'experienced' as McMillan in terms of internationals. Do you honestly think Kemp will score 1000 runs like a Van Der Dussen, Ervine, Malan and even locals Ryan Haire, James Shannon and James Hall could do?

Guys " Kempy" is 38 years of age. What's the big deal about him ? Craig McMillan played here and he didn't "spoil" the competition. Rudi Bryson played here and it didn't "spoil" the competition. I still remember a young Andy Patterson ( I was standing at short leg) hooking Rudi out of the ground at Greenisland. Very good young players like Andy relish playing against these guys .
I get out and about to watch a lot of cricket and I can not think of one single young player whose development has been hampered because of the introduction of better pros in the last ten years. Maybe Neil and Bumper can name a few.
Muckamore have been on the receiving end of more hammering than most over the past twenty seasons in the PL yet every pre season the only focus is getting back up to have another go.
You don't see anyone from Derriaghy on here complaining about having to play against better players in 2016.
As for 8 teams , 10 teams or 12 team leagues no one mentioned this at the NCU AGM.

Couldn't agree more Ozzie.
...."No point in having players such as Kempy playing against amateurs as it will become soul destroying very quickly...."
It IS soul destroying.
And I believe you learn nothing about being dismissed cheaply every match or going for over 8 an over playing against such opponents.
It results in a loss of confidence and an erosion of the enjoyment you get from playing.
It's like playing 18 holes against Jordan Spieth, running against Usain Bolt or trying to go a round with Floyd Mayweather... You have no chance.
And this is not defeatist.
This is being realistic.
Ordinary club cricketers have no chance.
If teams want to go down this road, spend a lot of money and continually bring in players from other countries and unions let's have an Elite Irish League with the Interpros scrapped.
Waringstown, CIYMS, Instonians, CSNI, maybe even Noth Down, Merrion, Malahide (I see they are looking for a full time Director of Cricket now), North County, Clontarf, Coleraine, Brigade and maybe even Donemana.
And let the rest of us get back to playing senior cricket in our respective unions.
With elite league teams paying clubs for use of their better players if these individuals want to give it a go and keeping them for a certain length of time. ie.. one, two or three year deals.
If these clubs have money let's see all cricket on the island benefit.
This way the better players throughout Ireland get to play in the top tier if they choose and those who don't stay and enjoy their club cricket.
No more mis-matches, no more walk-overs, no more two-tier eight team leagues.

Perhaps I have been 'drip feeding' my views so I will clarify my position.
I said at the time and I still feel it was a mistake to go for an eight team Premier League.
I accept your point Clarence that some degree of elitism is part of sport.
The 8 team league is too restrictive and has had some harmful effects on club cricket-
1. Talented club players, young and more seasoned players seek to play for the 'big five'.
2. Many of these players soon become disillusioned from batting 3 and bowling 10 overs to batting 8/9 if at all and getting a few overs.
3. Clubs outside the Premier lose players and their ambition and desire to compete at the top level.
4. If you want more talented players playing in the Premier League then have 10 or 12 teams in the league.
5. Then you will have a top 4, another 4 chasing consolidation and 4 battling relegation.
6. You will enable clubs to retain their best players and their talented youngsters.
7. You will give clubs back the ambition to strive to reach the top.
8. You will have much healthier club cricket basis for the NCU.

BUMPERDALE - A VOICE IN THE WILDERNESS.

As I understand it the Inter Pro series is a pre requisite for ICC funding and Ireland's quest for Test status.
I think the plan is to get the tournament recognised as First Class standing. As funding improves I think you will see more of our internationals return home to play club and Inter Pro cricket as their county contracts come to an end and fewer young players will go across the water but play here in the Inter Pro series and in club cricket. It might be an idea to include two or three regional teams from Scotland and turn it into a Celtic competition.
I have never understood how the Inter Pro set up can have any negative impact on clubs and it certainly doesn't ever occupy the thinking at Muckamore except it's great to see Neil Gill playing at that level and it gives young players like Sam Gordon a goal to aim for.
I think the interest in the Inter Pros will grow although I'm not sure the three or four day games will ever attract many spectators. After all county cricket has struggled for crowds for years

Why have an interpro set up ?
Why not use the money spent on thr knights as grants towards premier league clubs. This is the reward should you gain promotion from section 1 and meet the criteria required fir entry.
Clubs can spend as they wish. This in turn will strengthen playing standards and facilities.
Figures quoted a few months ago on this site I think said approx 100k a year to run the Knights. Over 10k a club when you divide it up.
A nice incentive should you gain promotion to the elite league.

I suppose Taito I can only really guage by what's going on at Muckamore . We now can field five teams ( and all on the one day if need be ), the youth section is buzzing wth more coaches than before , we have a ladies team. New equipment to help on the ground , a new purpose built shed for the equipment a complete facelift for the bar underway so yes at Moylena cricket is healthy.
I see reports that Ards are improving their facilities , Arnagh Cricket Club are fighting back , I see Dundrum and Donaghadee encouraging youth cricket , better pros coming into the league, Derriaghy on a roll , Templepatrick working hard to develop on and off the pitch and I see Saintfield and Bangor advertising for coaches , loads of NCU under age squads each with two or three enthusiastic coaches so from where I look I see NCU cricket in a healthy state. I think Section's One and Two will be very competitive next season with up to half the teams in each league having a realistic chance of winning their league.
I just think those in a less positive frame of mind need to take a hard look at themselves and ask are they doing enough to promote the game in their area. Are they in the schools ? Are they running Easter and Summer camps , are they throwing their club open to people who gave never played the game before?
I think there are far more opportunities in cricket then there ever has been. Cricket Academies, winter tours , Cricket Development Officers etc. So I see a healthy sport but of course with room for further improvement .

Ivan,

Do you really think the NCU is in a healthy state? I think there are a few clubs that are in a strong place thorughout the club but in general i think the strength of NCU cricket has declined over the years. I also think that most clubs are struggling more than ever to get teams out and keep boys committed throughout the club. This was never a problem when i was growing up, as i said not every club is the same but many are in that situation. So i would have to disagree.

In all formats of cricket where I have played there are normally 3 tiers - club - county or state and then international cricket.
The interpro is like the county or state tier to get you ready for international cricket but as they only play 3-4 games a year this is not working...I would suggest that the unions get together and form a elite league - the best 3 or 4 teams from each union play in their own seperate league hence ready for the call up to international cricket.
there will be a lot of people against this idea but if certain teams are going to "hire players" to play for them they need to be playing against suitable opposition ( I also would like to think that if a team is paying a player that ALL members of the team should also be paid - very bad for moral if half of the team are paid and the other not ).
The NCU can still have their leagues but section 1 would become the premier league and so on...no point in having players such as Kempy playing against amatuers as it will become soul destroying very quickly for the opposition.

Ivan,
You are correct we need a stepping stone from club cricket to international cricket, but that competition has to have a level playing field and capture the interest of cricketers, spectators, sponsors, and the media. At present it doesn't so all I'm asking for is a competition that does. Remember the early years of the Guinness Cup? Real Interprovincial cricket.
Billy,
All sport is elitest to some degree. It comes with success, facilities and a number of other factors that set clubs apart. The NCU has had it since 1887 and during most of its history it was a lot worse than today. Too much is made of it as big clubs attract ambitious players from small clubs in every sport and they don't become elite simply because of that. You were spoiled at North Down! LOL.

Bumper . The idea that if you want to play at the highest level you might need to move clubs isn't a new thing nor is it confined to cricket .
For example twenty years ago Andy White moved from Ards to North Down and thirty odd years ago Alan and Noel Nelson and Davy and Robbie Dennison moved from Millpark to Waringstown and I'm sure there are many more examples of players moving clubs to have an opportunity to play at the highest level .
Of course there have been players down through the years who decided to stay with their home club. When Muckamore got relegated in 1972 John McCormick could have played in any team in the top flight but stayed at his club. I can think of others in the 70's, 80's and 90's who could have moved up but didn't . In recent years players like Craig Lewis ( who has got his rewards now ) stayed loyal to Derriaghy and another player who could have played at a higher level is Colin Russell at Armagh.
Muckamore lost Jason VdeMerwe to CSNI simply because he wanted to play in the top flight.
We tried to persuade him to stay and all his mates are still at Moylena and would love to have him back but it's easy to understand why players like Jason want to play at a higher level.
I know I love to see him do well in the Premier League and his is the first performance I check each week in the Sunday Life. In a way I still see him as one of ours .
Losing a player with ambition to the top flight is inevitable but it shouldn't for a second stop clubs wanting to develop more and more quality players. Not every club can be in a top eight league but as Neil Fulkerton pointed out you can have good club cricket below the top flight but if you are ambitious ( and good enough) beyond your home club's ambition then I say "go for it" and if it doesn't work out or for what ever reason you will be welcomed back with open arms or as we say " there are no gates at Moylena".
I notice that Clarence thinks the current interpro set up is flawed but what's the alternative ?
Surely we need a stepping stone from club cricket to international cricket. Surely we need our up and coming potential internationals playing against current internationals so we can guage just where they are at in their development.

Maybe we need to address the closed shop that is now the Premier League!
If you are a young ambitious player hoping to play at the top level you need to play for CSNI, CIYMS, Waringstown, Instonians or North Down.
Now surely that is not a healthy situation for the development of club cricket!